I understand Sarah Bridges, 2010, made a verbal commitment

Well put, geezer. Those are some really reasonable guidelines with which to tread these sometimes murky waters.

Elinor is in!!! Sarah is probably in, but I too think we should wait for that public announcement that shows the player and family are comfortable with the situation.

So here's a question for the recruiting rules guru, whichever one of you it is. Suppose a girl plays for a club team, like the So Cal Blues. The coach of her team is not affiliated with a college, but a whole bunch of the coaches of other teams from the club are associated with a particular college. The girl makes a verbal commitment to that college. Can her club team coach provide public information about her commitment? What if the club team coach also is affiliated with the college.

I'm pretty cautious myself about revealing information a player or college coach may want to keep confidential. And also about being too intrusive with a player. I actually could have emailed Elinor Priest or her parents directly, as I have their email addresses, but I felt that would be taking advantage of a particular situation I'm in as a coach of a different St. Mary's Academy sport. So, instead, I checked with the manager of the recruiting commitment database that is available on the internet; he told me his information source and his past experience with the same source; and I concluded the source was reliable. I also did not want to email the Priest family as I am a contributor to U of P athletics and, as such, am covered by the no-recruiting-communication rules, if I correctly recall what I read a couple of years ago. There's an exception for relatives and family friends, but I wouldn't fit the exception in her case.

Before Pilot Nation came to be...I think its safe to say that the majority of us were "in the dark" when it came to recruiting news for most UP sports. It's amazing to me how much sleuthing goes on. The information...for the most part...posted here is quite accurate and reliable! While I appreciate and enjoy the previews and news about recruits committing 1 to 2 years away...after biting hard on the Marta bait ...I find myself falling back to the old addage..."Trust BUT Verify". So, for me...as far as recruiting news goes.....until Garrett, his staff and the Athletic Department officially say the "ink is dry"....I don't "count my chickens before they hatch"!

Gee...how many of those "words to live by" did I sting together?! HA! That might be a record for me!

GO PILOTS!!!

UPSoccerFanatic wrote:So here's a question for the recruiting rules guru, whichever one of you it is. Suppose a girl plays for a club team, like the So Cal Blues. The coach of her team is not affiliated with a college, but a whole bunch of the coaches of other teams from the club are associated with a particular college. The girl makes a verbal commitment to that college. Can her club team coach provide public information about her commitment? What if the club team coach also is affiliated with the college.

I don't pretend to be an expert, but for a couple reasons I've tried to understand how things work.

First off, a verbal commitment has no status for a player as far as the NCAA is concerned, Or really, the National letter of intent program. It's only a way a player can signal interest in a school after an offer has been proffered. Schools guide players into using this avenue as a way to make the players comfortable, get an idea themselves who is coming, and to signal other schools that they are probably wasting their time going after 'your" player. coaching staffs look at lots of kids to get just a few. they usually only want to spend time on kids who are interested, or they feel they have a chance of convincing to be interested.


The verbal is just one of the signals that are used by convention to sort of signal to all parties what stage the relationship is in. A kid can go anywhere right up until the letter of intent gets signed in the kid's senior year. That's why the letter is such a big deal. The only sentence I've seen on verbal commitments in the NCAA D1 manual is a short sentence that says it isn't binding for a player.

for a school, it's a little different. If you offer a kid a package and the kid accepts by making a verbal commitment, it sort of locks in a school as far as the package is concerned. There are circumstances under which a school could choose not to honor the offer, but those are pretty rare and sometimes that leads to legal and (bad) publicity recriminations.

There are rules about what what sorts of advances a College coach can make a player in a club or ODP setting. Basically, you aren't allowed to initiate any discussions on recruiting for your school until senior year. You can respond to questions, but that's all. The kid pretty much has to make the first step, and it's the kid's responsibility to keep the relationship going. No stalking allowed. Coaches are very aware about what is and isn't allowed. Every school has a compliance officer who makes sure they know. The consequences of making a player contact mistake are dire, and rival coaches watch each other like hawks.

For a coach who isn't affiliated with NCAA programs, it's a bit different. since they aren't with the schools, they can be approached by the schools to act as an intermediary. Often this is with people on college staffs they have had personal or team relationships with in the past. This gives them a lot of power in the modern recruiting picture, and why we often see kids from the same clubs year after year. I don't know if it's a matter of law, but it's presumed that the coach will act in the interest of the client, the student. It's often a big selling point in club programs that they can place your kid in the best college setting.

But your question is about a coach making an announcement. a College is only allowed to announce signings, and how and when that is done is closely controlled by the NCAA. It generally has to be done as a class all at once, and only after the kids have actually signed. There are exceptions, but that's the principle. Football and Basketball programs in the past would announce a recruit signing every week to keep themselves in the news. The NCAA put a stop to that with a whole raft of rules.

But with a verbal, since it has little or no legal status, I don't think that's so much an NCAA issue as it is a privacy issue.
You have to remember that the kids are almost always minors. in organizations that deal with kids a lot, there are regulations about what sort of personal information an organization can disseminate without parental consent. You will note that, especially with younger kids, it's almost impossible to link kids names with team pictures. That's generally by design. You are the attorney, so you probably know better than I, but I would imagine there would be legal consequences to releasing any information on a minor. It's a mean world out there. Usually the kid or parent will make the first announcement, then the coach can do followups and interviews. It wouldn't be "I'm announcing Sarah is going...." it's more like "I'd be happy to comment on Sarah's announcement - she's a great kid...."

I work with kids on another type of endeavor that has a lot of exposure online and lots of pictures of kids in group settings. The organization never allows a picture of a kid to be directly linked to a kid's name, school, address or any personal information.
With respect to soccer,I know one pretty good player about Sarah Bridges age whose information is very tightly secured by her parents. The same is true for other parents in the player's club program. If you hear something about where she's going at all, it'll be from the family first.

So, I would assume that a coach would only give out personal and recruiting information on a kid with parental consent. There might even be even forms for all that, or perhaps conditional releases parents sign when their kids join a club.

That's why I think that by the time we see something from an "official" source, that's been all been vetted, By the time that's happened, the kid and her parents are bubbling to get the news out.

If the source is secondary, I'm not so sure. Maybe there was a confidence or implied expectation of privacy that wasn't honored. Idle talk on the sidelines between parents isn't necessarily an OK to go public with the news. We have no way of knowing, but the cat's out of the bag anyway. It can't be put back.

I've probably got it all wrong, but that's how I see it from the outside. There are folks on the forum who have seen it from both sides who will be able to correct me. folks seem to be doing that on all fronts today

GUPhantom wrote: The information...for the most part...posted here is quite accurate and reliable! While I appreciate and enjoy the previews and news about recruits committing 1 to 2 years away...after biting hard on the Marta bait ...I find myself falling back to the old addage..."Trust BUT Verify". So, for me...as far as recruiting news goes.....until Garrett, his staff and the Athletic Department officially say the "ink is dry"....I don't "count my chickens before they hatch"!
GO PILOTS!!!

Ha Ha, a new world's record!

Another reason I document my sources is because after Marta, no one will believe anything I say. By way of excuse though, the hoax arose over a discussion KFTC and I were having about our frustration at all the wild rumors and "sightings" around the time of the spring games. At one point, the phrase "why, I ought to tell 'em I saw Marta" was uttered.

The rest is history.

I'm just a simple-minded hack staring at my computer screen...what thread am I in, anyhow?

Thanks, geezer, for your write-up. Very thorough, as usual. The one thing I will add is that I think if you are a contributor to a school's athletic program, you are subject to the same limitations as the school's coaching staff. Presumably, that's to prevent crazy alums from recruiting on behalf of the school (whether wanted or unwanted). The only exception is if the contributor is a family relation of the player or a long-standing friend of the player's family. I checked this a couple of years ago because we are long-standing family friends of a player who, during her sophomore year in high school, was at the top of the recruiting lists for schools such as UCLA, Portland, Santa Clara, North Carolina, and Penn State. I think even as family friends, it can be tricky.

UPSoccerFanatic wrote: The one thing I will add is that I think if you are a contributor to a school's athletic program, you are subject to the same limitations as the school's coaching staff.

You don't even have to contribute. Even buying a season ticket is enough. The mere presence on this forum makes you subject to NCAA rules. Conduct on this forum can theoretically impact the program adversely.

Purplegeezer wrote:

UPSoccerFanatic wrote: The one thing I will add is that I think if you are a contributor to a school's athletic program, you are subject to the same limitations as the school's coaching staff.

You don't even have to contribute. Even buying a season ticket is enough. The mere presence on this forum makes you subject to NCAA rules. Conduct on this forum can theoretically impact the program adversely.

I feel intoxicated with power all of a sudden.

Yeah, that's right, Athletic Department, I have a reply button and I'm not afraid to use it.

[quote="ninjapizza"][quote="Purplegeezer"]

UPSoccerFanatic wrote:
Yeah, that's right, Athletic Department, I have a reply button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Think we could use this newly discovered power as leverage to get the pre-2001 links back?

Purplegeezer wrote:

You don't even have to contribute. Even buying a season ticket is enough. The mere presence on this forum makes you subject to NCAA rules. Conduct on this forum can theoretically impact the program adversely.

Oops!!!!!!!!! I think I'm going to be off to Mexico by the end of this day!!!

Say goodbye to everyone for me...

THE DATABASE

Okay, UPSF, geezer, and anyone else out there who is familiar with the guy who runs this website - do we have source confirmation on Sarah Bridges or not???

pilotfan4ever wrote:A buddy of mine talked to her Dad and confirmed Sarah is coming to UP! Apparently she is at Regional Camp in California this week.

Short of one of us talking to her Dad, this seems to be pretty good confirmation of Sarah.

Great news about Sarah!

Just to follow up on this discussion... as someone who used to work for the athletic department, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that there are lots of on-line resources about what is and isn't permissable for "representatives of athletic interest" (boosters, season ticket holders, forum posters, etc.). I'm sure that no one here has broken these rules, but it's worth pointing them out from time to time.

The best and easiest resource I have found is actually on Gonzaga's website. (Not shocking, considering their over-the-top board that practically stalks basketball recruits.) Most of the information is stuff people already know, but there are some things that are banned that might surprise you a bit.

Here it is cut/pasted, except I changed all the Gonzaga references to UP references, since I'm cool like that:

Representatives of Athletic Interest
The University of Portland is responsible for the actions of its alumni, donors and friends. Under NCAA guidelines alumni, donors, and friends are categorized as "representatives of athletic interest". The University of Portland athletic department appreciates your continued support and interest, so below is a short reference page for you to use to stay within the rules when backing the Pilots. The University of Portland strives for the highest standard of ethical conduct and we value your cooperation in assisting us achieve this goal.

DEFINITIONS TO KNOW
Representative of Athletic Interest is someone who meets any of the following conditions:

* Participated in or been a member of an agency or organization promoting the The University of Portland's intercollegiate athletics program;
* Made a donation to any of the University of Portland's athletic programs or department;
* Assisted or been requested (by the athletics department staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospective student athletes;
* Arranged for or provided summer employment for enrolled student athletes;
* Assisted in providing any benefit to enrolled student athletes or their families;
* Contacted (by letter, telephone, or in-person) a high school student, grades 9-12, for the purpose of encouraging the student to participate in the University of Portland athletics program (no longer permissible in most cases);
* Been involved in any way in promoting the University of Portland athletics program.

Once an individual has been identified as an athletics representative, the person retains that identity indefinitely, even if he/she no long contributes to, or is involved with the athletics program.

Prospective Student Athlete (PSA) Defined as a student who has started classes for the ninth (9th) grade. A younger student may become a PSA if the institution provides such an individual (or relatives or friends) any financial assistance or other benefits not provided to prospective students generally.

Enrolled Student Athlete (SA) Defined as a student whose enrollment was solicited by a member of the athletics staff or an athletics representative with a view toward the student's ultimate participation in the intercollegiate athletics program. Any other student becomes a student athlete only when the student reports for an intercollegiate squad that is under the jurisdiction of the athletics department.

Contact Any face-to-face encounter between a PSA or the PSA's parents or legal guardians and an institutional staff member or athletics representative during which any dialogue occurs in excess of an exchange of a greeting. (See 'Recruitment of PSA's' below)
Recruiting Any solicitation of a PSA or the PSA's family (including legal guardians) by a University staff member or athletics representative for the purpose of securing the PSA's enrollment and participation in the University's intercollegiate athletics program. (See 'Recruitment of PSA's' below)

Offers and Inducements Being involved, directly or indirectly, in making arrangements for, giving, or offering to give any financial aid or other benefits to the PSA or the PSA's relatives or friends. Specifically prohibited financial aid, benefits, and arrangements include, but are not limited to, the following:

Arranging employment for a PSA's relatives
Giving a gift of clothing or equipment
Cosigning of loans
Providing loans to a PSA's relatives or friends
Giving cash or like items
Giving any tangible items, including merchandise
Providing free or reduced-cost services, rentals, or purchases of any type
Providing free or reduced-cost housing
Providing use of an institution's equipment (e.g., for a high school all-star game)
Sponsoring or arranging for an awards banquet for high school, preparatory school, or two-year college athletes by an institution, representatives of its athletics interests, of its alumni groups, or of its fundraising organizations (See 'Recruitment of PSA's' below)

Extra Benefits: An extra benefit is defined as any special arrangement by an institutional employee or representative of the institution's athletics interests to provide a student-athlete or the student-athlete's relatives or friends a benefit not expressly authorized by the NCAA legislation. Receipt of a benefit by student-athletes or their relatives or friends is not a violation of NCAA legislation if it is demonstrated that the same benefit is generally available to the institution's students or their relatives or friends or to a particular segment of the student body determined on a basis unrelated to athletics ability. Below is a list of some extra benefits:
Free use of a copy or fax machine
A loan of money, gift or use of credit card
Any signing or co-signing arrangements
Transportation to or from work or school
Office or home telephone use
Free or reduced cost on any item
Complimentary tickets to events/entertainment
Guarantee of bond
Free typing services
Use of automobile
Birthday/Wedding gifts
Shoes or apparel
Payment for work not performed
Rent free or reduced cost housing
(See 'Involvement With Current Student Athletes' below)

CONSEQUENCES FOR ATHLETICS REPRESENTATIVES FOR NCAA VIOLATIONS

NCAA member institutions are required to notify athletics representatives of consequences regarding rules violations. Any athletically related benefit or privilege may be withheld or revoked if the individual has engaged in conduct that is determined to be a violation of NCAA rules or regulations, regardless of whether such violation results in sanctions. A benefit or privilege may include, but is not limited to, an athletically related benefit received from an agreement between the athletics representative and the institution, such as ticket privileges. The revocation of ticket privileges may result in an individual being denied admittance to any University athletics event.

Always Ask Before You Act

RECRUITMENT OF PSA'S
Athletics department staff members and representatives of athletic interest always want to learn of new prospective student athletes. However, strict guidelines exist which prohibit much of what you can do as a representative of the University's athletics interest.

As an athletics representative you are prohibited from:

* Making in-person contact on or off campus with PSAs
* Corresponding with a PSA, their parents or legal guardians via written or telephone communication
* Contacting a PSA's coach
* Visiting a PSA's educational institution to pick up film or transcripts pertaining to the evaluation of the PSA
* Providing transportation for a local high school or junior college PSA to visit the University of Portland campus
* Inviting select high school PSAs to alumni events
* Providing an offer or inducement to a PSA or their parents, legal guardians, friends, or relatives

As an athletics representative you are permitted to:
* Employ PSAs in the summer after they have signed a National Letter of Intent (NLI) and after they have graduated from high school
* Attend high school or two-year college athletic contests (but you may not have contact with a PSA)
* Provide information to the University of Portland coaching staff regarding PSAs in your area
* Provide funding to benefit a local high school athletics program if
- The representative acts independently of the institution
- The funds are distributed through channels established by the high school or fundraising organization
- The funds are not earmarked directly for a specific PSA

INVOLVEMENT WITH CURRENT STUDENT ATHLETES
As an athletics representative you are prohibited from:

* Providing current SAs with benefits or services that are not generally available on the same basis to the entire student body (see extra benefits as previously defined)
* Using the name or picture of a current SA to advertise or promote the sale of a commercial product or service
* Purchasing or agreeing to purchase complimentary admission from a current SA for any item of value
* Contributing funds to finance a scholarship for a particular SA

As an athletics representative you are permitted to:
* Contribute funds to University of Portland to finance a scholarship for a particular sport (however, the decision as to how such funds are to be allocated in the sport shall rest exclusively with the institution)
* Provide summer employment to current SAs with compensation based on work actually performed and at a rate commensurate with other employees performing similar job duties
* Invite a current SA or the entire team and provide local transportation to your home to receive an occasional meal, (the meal may be catered); the offer is extended infrequently
* Commit your effort to one of the booster organization that work to support the athletics program at University of Portland
* Attend the athletic contests, home or away

RULES TO REMEMBER
Only coaches and athletics department staff members are permitted to be involved in the recruiting process. Alumni, friends, and other athletics representatives who are not employed by the University are not permitted to contact a PSA (or members of the PSA's family) by letter, telephone, or in-person (on or off-campus) for the purpose of soliciting their participation in the athletics program. For recruiting purposes, University of Portland faculty members are permitted to engage in in-person contact with PSAs, but only on the University of Portland campus. If an athletics representative recognizes a talented athlete, please contact an athletics staff member or coach.

A PSA remains a PSA even after he or she signs a National Letter of Intent or financial aid agreement to attend the University.
The PSA does not lose his or her PSA status until the start of classes at University of Portland or the beginning of official team practice, whichever occurs first.

DON'T DO ANYTHING FOR A PSA OR A SA WITHOUT SPECIFIC AUTHORIZATION FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF PORTLAND ATHLETICS DEPARTMENT.

The prohibition of contact with a PSA is not intended to relate to unavoidable incidental contacts with PSAs by athletics representatives.

It is understood that the athletics representatives may from time to time have contact with PSAs and/or their family members. Such contact is permissible so long as it is not made for the purpose of recruitment of the PSA, and involves only normal civility. In other words, if you meet a junior or senior high school or junior college student-athlete during your normal course of business or social activity, there is no violation as long as you do not discuss University of Portland athletics. If you are attending an alumni or athletics event and find yourself speaking with parents of a PSA, do not discuss the athletics program and excuse yourself from the discussion in an appropriate manner.

If a SA accepts any extra-benefits based on his or her status as an athlete or because of athletic skill, the SA will lose all eligibility for intercollegiate athletics participation.

Athletics representatives are reminded that NCAA rules regarding SAs remain in effect throughout the entire year, including the summer break.

Always Ask Before You Act.

UPSF wrote:

Short of one of us talking to her Dad, this seems to be pretty good confirmation of Sarah.

I agree, UPSF. Sarah Bridges is a 2010 Pilot verbal commit as far as I am concerned!