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WC Play So Far

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Post by DaTruRochin Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:52 am

I love that refs have the mandatory age 45 retirement just to maintain quality control (snark), and fitness levels, but man, he was great for his ability to garner respect from both players and managers... which, if you think about it, is probably something that cut down on all the gamesmanship. Players are going to flop as long as they don't trust the officials to make the actual calls, as frustrating as it may be.
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Post by Geezaldinho Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:44 pm

speaking of refs, I don't think anyone likes his job as much as Brasil's Carlos Simón.

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Poor Teddy.
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Post by Geezaldinho Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:57 am

Wow! The result of the tournament!

Brasil ran into a buzz saw. Excepting the gift on Robinho's goal, the Dutch took Brasil out of their game.

The result could have been predicted with the red card. Samba football with an edge went over it, and while the Japanese ref was letting a lot go, stomping on a guy's leg is not OK even in the J league.

The down side is the Orange will be two mids down against Uruguay (Ghana?)

Bad day for Felipe Melo.. Own goal and a red card..
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Post by DaTruRochin Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:50 pm

How Van Bommel didn't get at least an accumulation yellow is beyond me...but considering the theatrics on both sides I think the official made all the calls that he needed to.

I think the deserving side ended up winning, I don't know if I've ever seen Brazil completely lose their mind like they did in that second half....
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Post by Geezaldinho Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:26 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:How Van Bommel didn't get at least an accumulation yellow is beyond me...but considering the theatrics on both sides I think the official made all the calls that he needed to.

I think the deserving side ended up winning, I don't know if I've ever seen Brazil completely lose their mind like they did in that second half....

The Dutch call him the "ref Whisperer". Apparently he's famous for schmoozing the refs all game so they never card him.
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Post by DaTruRochin Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:48 pm

I found it funny that the 3 groups on the field spoke Dutch, Portuguese and Japanese... And yet English seemed to be the language they were communicating with to one another.

I think Dani Alves whining after every touch from Van Bommel made the ref kind of ignore him and keep the cards in his pocket...
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Post by DaTruRochin Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:50 pm

Just a filthy, nasty, stone cold free kick...

http://theoriginalwinger.com/2010-07-02-diego-forlans-goal-against-ghana

How Diego Forlan wasn't capable of this in an all red shirt, I will never understand....
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Post by DaTruRochin Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:20 pm

Wow, that finish was just... Wow...

I don't know if I've ever felt as sorry for a footballer as I do right now for Asamoah right now. Man that Ghana team was impressive, and all without Michael Essien!
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Post by Geezaldinho Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:23 pm

Best red card ever taken.
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Post by Stonehouse Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:35 pm

I don't even know how to feel about this.

Totally devastating for Ghana; ultimately hollow for Uruguay.

Is what happened at the end of this game any better/worse than what happened with Thierry Henry and France qualifying over Ireland? I don't think so. It was a smart play, but to call it anything other than cheating is kind if disengenuous.

Yuck. I just hate to see it end like that.
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Post by mattywizz Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:38 pm

Totally worth the red card. At that point in the match/tournament, what choice did Suarez have? Although I think he could have gotten there with his head...

Also, one of the announcers mentioned that the yellows reset after this round (unless you have two). I have been wondering about this since the Ro16 started, did not the cards used to reset after the group stage? Could you imagine getting a yellow in the first match and then in your fifth and have to miss a game for accumulation? Brutal.

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Post by Stonehouse Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:45 pm

Oh, it was definitely worth it.

I'm just saying... it sucks.

It's a bit of a stretch, but imagine if a basketball game was tied and there was a shot in the air at the buzzer, and then a player from the other team stood underneath the hoop and jumped up and tapped the ball out of the cylindar before it went through. So the basket doesn't count, it does to OT, and the other team wins the game.

Yes, it was smart and worth it, but it just feels hollow, you know? If I were a Uruguay fan, I'd have a hard time feeling really good about the win.
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Post by DaTruRochin Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:00 pm

Haha it reminds me of Little League when we were up like 6 runs going into the bottom of the final inning, and teams could only bat around once... Bases were loaded, their last player was up and we were up 2... We obviously pulled a Uruguay and issued an IBB...

That said it was all a split second decision... And it shouldn't take a way from the wunderstrike from Forlan. Comparing it to the Ireland debacle isn't fully accurate either, I mean at least the call was made and Ghana had the chance to win fair and square before penalties...
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Post by PurplePrideTrumpet Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:13 pm

Well I had some recent personal experience with watching penalties and I can tell you it absolutely sucks to go out that way. My heart was breaking watching Ghana after that match.

Uruguay has to go against Holland without one of their best scorers, but they would not even be there without him. It's a tough tradeoff.

The cards reset after the quarters so that you won't be suspended for the Final unless you get sent off in the semis.
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Post by PurplePrideTrumpet Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:16 pm

And now, a musical tribute to the vuvuzela (ela, ela, ey, ey, ey...)

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Post by Stonehouse Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:21 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:Comparing it to the Ireland debacle isn't fully accurate either, I mean at least the call was made and Ghana had the chance to win fair and square before penalties...

True.

But, pretty much everyone is saying that he did the right thing, it was smart, it was heads-up, etc. Which is true.

Yet everyone villified Henry for doing basically the same thing, even though it was also heads-up, smart, etc.

I'm sure I would have done the same thing in the same situation, but all in all it's kind of a crummy way to get a win.
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Post by DaTruRochin Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:21 pm

I'm just sad we didn't get another lovely celebration by Marcel Desailly...

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Post by DaTruRochin Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:26 pm

Stonehouse wrote:
Yet everyone villified Henry for doing basically the same thing, even though it was also heads-up, smart, etc.

As they should have, but if the ref had actually called it, it would have been a much different story... At least the Black Stars had a chance at redemption (grumble, grumble, grumble).

But yeah, ultimately, a hollow and bizzare way for the last African team standing to bow out...even if the way it played out was technically fair...

Thats it Stoney, it's a dance off...
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Post by Geezaldinho Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:35 pm

mattywizz wrote:Totally worth the red card. At that point in the match/tournament, what choice did Suarez have? Although I think he could have gotten there with his head...

Also, one of the announcers mentioned that the yellows reset after this round (unless you have two). I have been wondering about this since the Ro16 started, did not the cards used to reset after the group stage? Could you imagine getting a yellow in the first match and then in your fifth and have to miss a game for accumulation? Brutal.


The yellows reset, but I don't think the consequences do. If you got your second yellow this round, you sit the next game.
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Post by Geezaldinho Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:42 pm

Stonehouse wrote:
DaTruRochin wrote:Comparing it to the Ireland debacle isn't fully accurate either, I mean at least the call was made and Ghana had the chance to win fair and square before penalties...

True.

But, pretty much everyone is saying that he did the right thing, it was smart, it was heads-up, etc. Which is true.

Yet everyone villified Henry for doing basically the same thing, even though it was also heads-up, smart, etc.

I'm sure I would have done the same thing in the same situation, but all in all it's kind of a crummy way to get a win.

Stoney, there isn't any comparison. the hand ball was professional just like giving a foul in Basketball (if he had any time to think at all). the last two minutes of every basketball game has a dozen of those decisions.
78% of the time, Ghana scores anyway, statistically. it was a long shot roll of the dice. That's what sport is.

Thierry's hand ball was an attempt at sneakyness.


Or are you saying the Hand of God was OK, after all? (well, yeah, it was, but for a different reason - the Argentines hate the brits. Very Happy )
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Post by Stonehouse Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:51 pm

Ah, but there is a comparison!

Suarez was trying to help his team win the game.

Henry was trying to help his team win the game.

Both committed intentional handballs.

Both actions ultimately led to their teams winning.

Why was what Henry did ("sneaky" or no) unfair, but what Suarez did acceptable and just part of the game? I don't really see how you can have it both ways.

Henry took a "long shot roll of the dice" and got away with it.

Of course I understand where you are coming from and I don't even necessarily disagree (like I said, I would have done the same thing if I were in that situation).

It's not easy to feel proud of the win when really, when you break it down to it's most basic level, you had to cheat to have a chance to win.
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Post by DaTruRochin Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:00 pm

BUT, Suarez was caught doing it... Whereas...

Oh never mind.
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Post by Geezaldinho Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:08 pm

Stonehouse wrote:
Why was what Henry did ("sneaky" or no) unfair, but what Suarez did acceptable and just part of the game? I don't really see how you can have it both ways.

Nothing at all sneaky about what Suárez did. 1.5 Billion saw it, the proper penalty assessed, and it's over. That Ghana didn't capitalize is their own fault. They had their fate in their own hands, which is what sport is about.

People are pretty selective about when it's sneaky and when it's not.

if it's somebody you hate, then its sneaky. if it's Tevez scoring offsides and not going to the ref and begging for it to be taken off the board, then it's cheating in some circles, rather than just not getting caught being off. a german Keeper retrieves the ball from behind the goal line--what is it? clever play of cheating? (he admits it was a goal and he knew it)

But two hand balls in a previous Brasilian game by Louis Fabiano is called cunning by his coach. Then today a Dutch guy does the same move in the midfield and Dunga wants the ref's head.

Maybe the real difference is that Thierry didn't suffer the penalty for his error and France advanced undeservedly. and that's why people hate him for it.

Ireland had no way to redress the violation. Ghana did.



Last edited by Geezaldinho on Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Stonehouse Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:16 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:BUT, Suarez was caught doing it... Whereas...

Oh never mind.

Ha ha! Dance off it is! Smile

No no - I know they are different situations.

I just had already heard/seen so many people lionizing Suarez and calling him a hero that I wanted to point out the irony of people loving him for his handball but hating Henry for his.
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Post by Geezaldinho Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:20 pm

Stonehouse wrote:
DaTruRochin wrote:BUT, Suarez was caught doing it... Whereas...

Oh never mind.

Ha ha! Dance off it is! Smile

No no - I know they are different situations.

I just had already heard/seen so many people lionizing Suarez and calling him a hero that I wanted to point out the irony of people loving him for his handball but hating Henry for his.

No irony.. Thierry is French Very Happy

Besides, I don't think anyone is Lionizing Suárez. I think they are amazed that a play that 78% of the time results in a PK goal against you got Uruguay into the semis.

It's more wonder than anything.
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