Where do we go from here?

up7587 wrote:

Geezaldinho wrote:A pioneer in a new NCAA concept....

None and done.

There have been several players straight to the NBA from high school.  LeBron, Kobe, Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett . . .

 

And...? Howard is the most recent, and that was 12 years ago.

Since 2006 prep to pro is prohibited by the NBA CBA.

You have to be 19 and a year removed from when your HS class graduates. So it's college, some other league, or play video games for a year.

As to the NCAA part of it, I think that if you don't graduate kids, it should reduce your scholarship count. Connecticut graduated only a handful of players over a ten year period while they were winning National Championships.

They joyfully announced in 2015 they had gotten their graduation rate up to 20%.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2016/04/listen_to_eric_revenos_unoffic.html

Rev with a predictably entertaining interview today.

I thought most notable was that he still mentioned Chiir Maker being in the program, so possibly he might yet return to UP.

Also he said there were TWO Australians committed for 2017, one ranked No. 2 in Australia (that would be Makuach Maluach) and the other ranked "top 20" - an educated guess could be the second commit was/is Grant Anticevich, also a Newington College guy. 6-6, 180 lb. forward ranked #19 by AUSA Hoops.

And called Isaac Bonton the top 2017 player in Oregon.

It would seem Coach Porter should take a trip to Australia to heighten the interest of both Maluach and Anticevich in coming to UP.  International recruits often commit more to the coach than the school, and you know Rev will continue to recruit them when he eventually ends up at another school.

As for Maker....it would appear he has met all the requirements to return to school this summer....so the decision to return is probably up to he and Coach Porter.

Isaac Bonton reopened his recruiting when Rev left, but as TP is committed to recruiting local student-athletes, and as the Bonton family probably has some idea who Terry Porter is, Bonton may yet end up a Pilot.

Dean Murdoch wrote:http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2016/04/listen_to_eric_revenos_unoffic.html

Rev with a predictably entertaining interview today.

Hard not to like Rev. I have to think at some point the players let him down. There were some inexplicable losses, and I doubt the staff was unprepared for the games. Even a couple more wins could have made the difference. He's too classy to throw those guys under the bus.

I'm trying yo imagine a more supportive interview from a guy who just got fired.

That said, the most telling comment is that the university shouldn't try to be something they're not.

If you want to be in the same conversation with Gonzaga, you have to be Gonzaga, and be willing to spend six times what we do, schedule classes, go all out on recruiting, and make sure the full academic and facility accommodation is there.

I think you are kidding yourself if you think just a change in coaches is the answer.

This will be an interesting time. We will get to see if having a high profile coach turns it around or not.

up7587 wrote:

Dean Murdoch wrote:http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2016/04/listen_to_eric_revenos_unoffic.html

Rev with a predictably entertaining interview today.

Hard not to like Rev.  I have to think at some point the players let him down.  There were some inexplicable losses, and I doubt the staff was unprepared for the games.  Even a couple more wins could have made the difference.  He's too classy to throw those guys under the bus.

You really think the players let him down for 5 years? Forgetting about Gonzaga and BYU for a minute, are you seriously implying that UP getting slaughtered night after night by the teams in the conference, year after year, was a result of players being apathetic and not a coaching staff unprepared for the rigors of WCC basketball?

I think it's interesting that when asked when he was having the most fun he references the 2010-2011 season.

I read this piece and all I hear are excuses. I feel bad for all of the guys that came in with promise, like Kevin Bailey, Tanner Riley, Bryce Pressley, that should've been stars in this conference. I'm looking forward to brighter days ahead.

up7587 wrote:

Dean Murdoch wrote:http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2016/04/listen_to_eric_revenos_unoffic.html

Rev with a predictably entertaining interview today.

Hard not to like Rev.  I have to think at some point the players let him down.  There were some inexplicable losses, and I doubt the staff was unprepared for the games.  Even a couple more wins could have made the difference.  He's too classy to throw those guys under the bus.

You really think the players let him down for 5 years? Forgetting about Gonzaga and BYU for a minute, are you seriously implying that UP getting slaughtered night after night by the other teams in the conference, year after year, was a result of players being apathetic and not a coaching staff unprepared for the rigors of WCC basketball?

I think it's interesting that when asked when he was having the most fun he references the 2010-2011 season. What I find criminal is this athletic dept. allowing this coaching staff to continue in this vein for 5 years and basically forcing those guys to have to choose between a rewarding basketball opportunity or having to transfer and give up a great college opportunity at UP.

I read this piece and all I hear are excuses. I feel bad for all of the guys that came in with promise, like Kevin Bailey, Tanner Riley, Bryce Pressley, that should've been stars in this conference. I'm looking forward to brighter days ahead.

No, I'm thinking specifically of this last year. And of course it's not all on the players, but some of it has to be.

wrv wrote:What's the adage about players winning the games and coaches losing the games, at least if responsibility is to be placed where the viewing public thinks it ought to be.

I think there is something to the suggestion that the players did not perform up to snuff a few times last year.

Still, I do not recall us 'getting slaughtered night after night . . ." but perhaps I wasn't watching closely enough.

More important than a postmortem, is whether we will sign anyone this spring given at least one roster vacancy for next year? Thoughts?

I'm certain that Rev wasn't let go solely based on last season's performance but since we want to focus on just that season let's take a look at the 20 losses. For argument sake we'll set the over/under on "getting slaughtered" at 10.

UC Davis 66-79
Colorado 63-85
Colorado St 74-90
Boise St 71-81
Weber St 82-92
San Fran 95-107
Gonzaga 74-85
San Diego 71-82
St Mary's 74-89
San Fran 76-87
Gonzaga 66-92
BYU 81-99
Gonzaga 67-92

Add another 7 losses by less than 10 points and less than spectacular wins over Concordia Irvine, Portland State, Sac St and Cal Fullerton and I feel certain that the players bear little to no responsibility for this, or the last 5 seasons of mediocrity.

Dean Murdoch wrote:http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2016/04/listen_to_eric_revenos_unoffic.html

Rev with a predictably entertaining interview today.

I thought most notable was that he still mentioned Chiir Maker being in the program, so possibly he might yet return to UP.

Also he said there were TWO Australians committed for 2017, one ranked No. 2 in Australia (that would be Makuach Maluach) and the other ranked "top 20" - an educated guess could be the second commit was/is Grant Anticevich, also a Newington College guy. 6-6, 180 lb. forward ranked #19 by AUSA Hoops.

And called Isaac Bonton the top 2017 player in Oregon.

This is what's so infuriating. Isaac Bonton, a 2 star recruit, is the top player in the 2017 class? And Rev, the great recruiter, zoned in on him before all of the other colleges and beat out which programs again? Northern Arizona that's who.

The sign of a great recruiter is someone who beats out other recruiters for a kid. I've asked this question in the past, besides Kevin Bailey, name a kid that we got who was highly recruited, that Rev beat another program for? We don't even beat out teams in our conference. This idea that we can't convince elite players to come here is the ruse that we've been falling for since 2011. Let's stop romanticizing this era and look forward to great times ahead.

wrv wrote:"Getting slaughtered" requires more than a 10 point loss, and that's a fact Jack.

Ah, you're one of those moral victory guys. Tell that to the players who get to watch the NCAA tournament from the comfort of their dorms.

Hey, we could be doing lots worse. UNLV just hired a new coach on 3/27, and he left today for Texas Tech. Wonder what he'll do with all the 'slightly used' monogramed UNLV shirts?

up7587 wrote:Hey, we could be doing lots worse.  UNLV just hired a new coach on 3/27, and he left today for Texas Tech.  Wonder what he'll do with all the 'slightly used' monogramed UNLV shirts?

They'll get good money on EBay.

In response to the Rev radio interview...

I like Reveno quite a bit, but something about this interview really bothered me. Rev is either delusional about where he and his staff went wrong, or he is deliberately misleading the listeners.

Reveno was asked what went wrong after the 2009-11 glory years. His answer is the same one that he gave to Jason Quick in an Oregonian article at the end of the 2014-15 season. Reveno said that, following the success of the 76 Classic and finishing 3rd in the conference, he started bringing in a different kind of recruit. These new recruits were higher rated players, but did not appreciate the academic opportunity at UP and eventually transferred. This halted the momentum Reveno had created, and ultimately led to the program's downturn.

I say that this never happened. Who are these recruits that Reveno could potentially be referring to? Here are the newcomers brought into the program in the 2010, 2011, and 2012 recruiting classes (omitting walk-ons). Do any of them fit Rev's narrative?

2010
Tanner Riley -- stayed four years, graduated, overall a disappointing career
John Bailey -- redshirted, stayed four years, graduated, a very sub-par player
Tim Douglas -- transferred after two years, but by all accounts an excellent and dedicated student
Riley Barker -- stayed four years, career marred by injuries, overall a good back-up player
Derrick Rodgers -- transferred in, stayed three years, graduated, sub-par player
Korey Thieleke -- stayed four years, graduated, good back-up player
Ryan Nicholas -- stayed four years, graduated, excellent player

2011
Kevin Bailey -- stayed all four years, graduated, top-rated recruit of the Reveno era, great career
Thomas VDM -- stayed four years, graduated, great career
Dorian Cason -- transferred after one year, averaged 4.6 points on 39% shooting as a post player, barely played at PSU three years later
David Carr -- stayed four years, graduated, injury plagued career, but not a great player even when healthy

2012
Bryce Pressley -- stayed four years, will graduate, great career
Jake Ehlers -- transferred after one year, averaged 1.8 points, never played D-I again
Oskars Reinfelds -- kicked off team after one year, averaged 4.1 points, played one season at Troy

Yes there were players who left (4 out of 14), and yes there was a single high-ranked recruit (Bailey). But there were zero players who fit Reveno's story. There were zero high-ranked recruits who were good players but bad students, who left the program and derailed what Rev was building.

For Reveno to be allowed to continue peddling this story -- selling this as some kind of trend that ultimately led to his downfall -- shows how little attention is paid to UP basketball in this town. The media won't scrutinize his claim, because they aren't paying attention to UP hoops.

The real recruiting story? Following the successful years of 2009-2011, Reveno was unable to capitalize on his success by bringing in good basketball players. Of the 14 new players who showed up on campus in 2010-2012, NINE of them (two-thirds!) had career D-I scoring averages of under 4.5. Of these nine, I'm happy to concede that two -- Barker and Thieleke -- contributed enough in other areas to make up for their futility on offense. The other seven should not have been playing D-I ball. That is the real story of the Pilots' dramatic backslide after 2011.

Career scoring averages
Barker: 3.4
Riley: 4.3
Bailey: 0.4
Rodgers: 4.1
Thieleke: 2.5
Cason: 4.4
Carr: 3.4
Ehlers: 1.8
Reinfelds: 4.1

NoPoNeighbor wrote:
Dorian Cason -- transferred after one year, averaged 4.6 points on 39% shooting as a post player, barely played at PSU three years later

The last time I saw this guy was at the downtown target with a case of beer when I glanced down a random ass aisle of the store, kitchen appliances or something? Probably during the 2014-2015 season. I don't precisely recall.

dholcombe wrote:The last time I saw this guy was at the downtown target with a case of beer

Come on, we've all been there...

We never bought cases of beer when I went to school.








It was Kegs, or 12 packs of Genesee Cream Ale ( $2.99 a twelve pack)

And it was back in the day when everybody knew recreational drugs couldn't hurt you no matter what they were or how much you took.

And we also went to the orchards for free "drops" ( anything that hit the ground) which we pressed into cider to ferment. Add some sugar and it was pretty easy to get to 14%

Now half the taps in the pubs are cider.

NoPoNeighbor wrote:The real recruiting story? Following the successful years of 2009-2011, Reveno was unable to capitalize on his success by bringing in good basketball players. Of the 14 new players who showed up on campus in 2010-2012, NINE of them (two-thirds!) had career D-I scoring averages of under 4.5. Of these nine, I'm happy to concede that two -- Barker and Thieleke -- contributed enough in other areas to make up for their futility on offense. The other seven should not have been playing D-I ball. That is the real story of the Pilots' dramatic backslide after 2011.

This was a brilliant post, NoPo. I was a big supporter of Coach Reveno but it is hard to argue with any of the facts you've brought forward for discussion here. Essentially, the Pilots batted only about 50% with their recruits over a three-year period - with only 13 scholarships available, that means (on average) you've only got 6 or 7 able to contribute at a level close to WCC caliber. That's not enough as it is, and add in the inevitable injuries/transfers and it even gets worse.

up7587 wrote:Hey, we could be doing lots worse.  UNLV just hired a new coach on 3/27, and he left today for Texas Tech.  Wonder what he'll do with all the 'slightly used' monogramed UNLV shirts?

Oh my god, I had completely missed this until reading your post. What a dumpster fire at UNLV.

Should make us appreciate the relatively painless coaching change that the Pilots just went through! Well done, Leykam and co.

NoPoNeighbor wrote:I like Reveno quite a bit, but something about this interview really bothered me. Rev is either delusional about where he and his staff went wrong, or he is deliberately misleading the listeners.

I think a lot of your post is spot on in the fact that many of those recruits didn't perform as hoped. It's 100% fair to say that they did not assess talent as well as they needed to in order to ensure sustained success.

But I think it's also fair to say that many of them - despite not performing well - were indeed more highly regarded coming out of high school than guys like Jared Stohl, Ethan Niedermeyer, Kramer Knutson, Robin Smeulders, Jasonn Hannibal, Nemanja Mitrovic, etc. I think Luke Sikma was pretty well rated, but even he ultimately chose us over PSU and Pacific... not exactly murderers row. And our transfers like Nik Raivio and TJ Campbell didn't have a lot of offers elsewhere either.

For instance, Tanner Riley - who, I think we could all agree, didn't have the career that many of us were hoping - chose us over Washington State. According to ESPN's recruit rankings, Kevin Bailey was an 89. Tim Douglas (88), Riley Barker (88), Dorian Cason (87), and Korey Thieleke (86) were all rated much higher than any of the guys we brought in over the previous years - Sikma was a 73 and Stohl a 71.

Anyway, my guess is that what Rev meant was that they started putting a lot more energy into going after higher recruited players - and remember, that includes lots of guys that ultimately didn't sign here - that maybe weren't as good of a cultural fit, whereas earlier they had to really focus on things like cultural fit in order to have a hope at success given the level of recruits that were willing to consider UP. Winning opened more doors for the coaches, but ultimately our program had its best success with "diamond in the rough" guys rather than the more highly regarded high school recruits that ended up not panning out.

From an Oregonian article: "Reveno said when he evaluates players, he looks at three things: athleticism, skill and toughness. He believes a player needs two of the three to become a top player."

I bet if you did a scatter-plot of our recruits from, say, Rev's first five years compared to his last five years, where they landed within the triangle of athleticism, skill, and toughness changed quite a bit, and that's what Rev was referring to when he said his recruiting strategy changed as more athletic and more skillful players became available to us after our period of success.

Not sure if that makes sense, but that was my understanding based on Rev's interview.

Dean Murdoch wrote:

dholcombe wrote:The last time I saw this guy was at the downtown target with a case of beer

Come on, we've all been there...

But why Target? It doesn't seem very conveniently situated for where I would assume a PSU student would be living. Although having done grad school at PSU it is not a very far walk either. I walked approximately that route to the MAX every class day. And who stops to get kitchen appliances during a beer run (I honestly don't recall what aisle it was, but it was an aisle you don't use every day)?