Memorial Day

wrv wrote:The dude abides, Sam. Ms. Ross in Butch Cassidy et al was a sight to behold and apparently Sam knew it too. They have been married for some time.
Nice note about Sam.

Funny thing, after I asked him about that, Sam told me he did not even meet Katherine during the filming of Butch Cassidy because they had no scenes together.  I'd have to see the movie again to check his memory on that, but he said they met about 10 years later on another movie in which they had multiple scenes together, one of which was apparently Sam's first bare-ass scene...I didn't verify that either.  

Dean Murdoch wrote:This thread is incredible.

+1

I was taught nothing about the Vietnam War in school, and the stories on PilotNation about UP grads who fought and died there has brought a whole new interest that I never knew I'd have.

As I recall, there's a wall on campus that pays tribute to UP grads who have died while in the military, but I never took the time to visit it.  Next time I'm on campus (I'm hoping to reenroll in January), I'm definitely going to check-out the names on the wall and do a little research...

After skipping a year on this thread when we were more concerned with the pandemic than remembering the fallen...



I remember former UP student and recipient of this nation's highest military award for valor, the Medal of Honor, David Kingsley, from Portland, Oregon.  David, a US Army Air Force 2nd Lieutenant and a bombardier on a B-17 bomber, was killed while on a raid on the Ploesti Oil Fields in Romania on June 23, 1944.

The B-17 bomber that Lt. Kingsley was serving on was badly damaged by flak during its bomb run to the target and was forced to drop out of the formation, thereby losing the mutual protection that formation flying affords. After dropping its bombs on the target through Kingsley's direction, his aircraft was unable to rejoin the formation for the return flight to England and was attacked by enemy aircraft and burst into flames.

During the chaos of the fire and damage, Lt. Kingsley first gave aid to the wounded tail gunner and then jumped down to pull the wounded ball turret gunner from his position. When the order to abandon the aircraft and bail out of the crippled B-17 was given, Kingsley learned the wounded tail gunner's parachute was shredded and unusable. Sacrificing his own survival, he placed his parachute on the wounded man and then helped he and the rest of the wounded bail out of the burning plane.

The last sight of Lt. Kingsley was as he stood on the bomb bay door while the plane flew on auto pilot until it crashed. For extreme courage and selfless sacrifice, he was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor on April 9, 1945. His body was subsequently located, returned to the US Forces and placed to rest in Arlington National Cemetery.  His name is engraved on the Praying Hands Memorial on the University of Portland campus.

The more I read about the men and women in the military, the more I am amazed at the sacrifices they make on a daily basis that they consider to be "routine" and yet we know nothing about. I heard that for military families, every day is Memorial Day, they all know someone who has died in service to their country.

Was the bombardier's position in the B-17 close the tail or ball turret gunner's position.  If not, Kingsley had to maneuver a long way just to help the stricken gunners,

I have asked before, why don't we learn about the military in school??

StudentPilot wrote:Was the bombardier's position in the B-17 close the tail or ball turret gunner's position.  If not, Kingsley had to maneuver a long way just to help the stricken gunners,

No, the bombardier was positioned about as far away as you can get.

The bombardier was perched at the extreme front end of the B-17, protected only by a plexiglass window, and the navigator sat at a mounted table just behind the bombardier where he laid out charts and maps to navigate the best course to the target and back. The bombardier took control of the bomber during the actual bomb run by flying the aircraft via a connection between his Norden bomb sight and the auto-pilot system.


In this picture you can clearly see the ball turret (below), the upper turret, the tail guns, the right waist gun, the right cheek guns in the nose, and the plexiglass nose.  (The cheek guns were operated remotely by the navigator).


When the new B-17G came out in 1943, it was better equipped for self-protection with a chin turret holding twin.50 caliber machine guns installed just under the nose. The bombardier operated them by remote control, but as it took all the bombardier’s concentration to make sure the bombs were delivered on target, I would imagine the chin turret was used only after the bombs were dropped.


I don’t know why some aircraft restorers make their restored aircraft so bright and shiny…there is no way anyone would take this bright target into combat.  Most B-17’s were eventually olive drab, but early on in the war some were lighter in color…just not as shiny as the one in the picture.

After reading that F-15s from the Oregon Air National Guard will be making low passes over various events in Oregon and Idaho today, I learned the F-15 pilots are trained at Kingsley ANG Base in Klamath Falls.

Seems only right that an Army Air Forces Medal of Honor recipient from Portland should have a base named after him and his image on the tail of an F-15.

Our military and those members who were alumni here deserve our acknowledgement of their deeds today but let us also give a moment for our fellow citizens and their children who are the victims of senseless assault rifle massacres. RIP.

StudentPilot wrote:After reading that F-15s from the Oregon Air National Guard will be making low passes over various events in Oregon and Idaho today, I learned the F-15 pilots are trained at Kingsley ANG Base in Klamath Falls.

Watching the F-15s takeoff just before 10 this morning filled me with the same excitement and pride in our military it always does, but I also remembered today is the one day a year that we Americans solemnly honor members of our armed forces who have sacrificed for the United States.

From the founding of the country during the Revolutionary War to the recent conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq, more than 1 million Americans have been killed while protecting our nation's interests. As author Tamra Bolton is credited with saying, "This is the day we pay homage to all those who didn't come home.  This is not Veterans Day, it is not a celebration, it is a day of solemn contemplation over the cost of freedom."

While we can disagree at times about the morality of war, such disagreements should not reflect upon military members themselves, they are the men and women who have answered their nation's call and paid the ultimate sacrifice.

I was on a flight to Chicago a couple of years ago when the captain asked us to remain seated after we had pulled up to the gate while the coffin and remains of someone who had died in combat was first removed from the belly of the aircraft and was met by an honor guard.

It was a very solemn moment for most everyone on the aircraft when we realized that we were honoring someone who had given their life for our country, but also because of the realization of the deep impact the death had on the family of the soldier/sailor/airman/marine!

StudentPilot wrote:I was on a flight to Chicago a couple of years ago when the captain asked us to remain seated after we had pulled up to the gate while the coffin and remains of someone who had died in combat was first removed from the belly of the aircraft and was met by an honor guard.

It was a very solemn moment for most everyone on the aircraft when we realized that we were honoring someone who had given their life for our country, but also because of the realization of the deep impact the death had on the family of the soldier/sailor/airman/marine!

Yes, it is the grief of the families that is so poignant.

A passenger took this video of US Army Green Beret Shawn Thomas' casket being is removed from an aircraft in Raleigh.  He is buried in Arlington National Cemetery.

Warrant Officer Thomas served four tours in Iraq and three tours in Afghanistan and was killed in Niger while training forces to conduct counter-Boko Haram operations in the area.



Shawn and his family...

Served in Vietnam with 1st Air Cav and with many brave men and women.
I honor all and in this thread those who made the ultimate sacrifice.
We do not forget. We remember.

StudentPilot wrote:Seems only right that an Army Air Forces Medal of Honor recipient from Portland should have a base named after him and his image on the tail of an F-15.

The Kingsley Field 173rd Fighter Squadron now conducts all the F-15C/D Eagle training for the USAF.  

F-15E Strike Eagle training is conducted in Arizona.

"Glider Pilots were in short supply..."



As most will attest, you cannot visit one of the National Cemeteries, including the American Normandy Cemetery, without feeling a great deal of emotion.

No wonder the glider pilots were in short supply. One-way trip. No exit plan. No training to survive after the landing. That's a tough sell.

Watch this!

Seeing the tributes in this thread last year made me wake up to the fact that there are far more heroes in the military than there will ever be in sports.

The Steve Hartman videos brought some tears to my eyes...thanks for sharing.

There is a lot of talk about the "national debt" these days, but we owe a much greater national debt to those who have fallen in service to our country and to their families.

On this Memorial Day Weekend, it is time to pause from the concerns of the employment status of student-athletes to reflect on those who have fallen so that United States college athletics can be played at a level like nowhere else in the world.

Our trivial concerns with sports cannot come close to matching the grief experienced by the families of those who have died or are still missing...



At least a couple of guys on PilotNation were First Cav guys during the Vietnam War, and so was Fred McMurray, Jr.

Thank you.  I had the privilege of participating in the annual Flag Placement at Willamette National Cemetery last evening.  Scouts and others put U.S. flags on every grave in the cemetery.  Approximately 190,000 graves.  

This morning we visited the graves of my parents and paternal grandparents, and wife's parents.  No family members have died serving our country, but my father and grandfather served, and we placed flags at their headstones. My father-in-law also served.

As most know, yesterday, June 6 was the 80th anniversary of the largest amphibious invasion in the history of warfare.  On that day more than 150,000 brave young soldiers from the United States, the United Kingdom and Canada stormed the beaches of Normandy, France in a bold strategy to push the Nazis out of Western Europe and turn the tide of the war for good.

Because of bad weather and fierce German resistance, the D-Day beach landings were chaotic and bloody, with the first waves of landing forces suffering terrible losses, particularly the U.S. troops at Omaha beach and the Canadian divisions at Juno beach. But thanks to raw perseverance and grit, the Allies overcame those grave initial setbacks and took all five Normandy beaches by nightfall that day.

This summer we should not forget...