Re: Pilots @ WSU Saturday @ 7:30PM - Pac 12 Network

by DoubleDipper Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:36 pm

PilotNut wrote:Are we any better this year than last? Has the program progessed?

I've made my flight and hotel reservations to see the men's and women's teams play on opening-day Wednesday in Las Vegas......

by PurplePrideTrumpet Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:40 pm

DoubleDipper wrote:
PilotNut wrote:Are we any better this year than last? Has the program progessed?
I've made my flight and hotel reservations to see the men's and women's teams play on opening-day Wednesday in Las Vegas......

First world problem.

Nothing I haven't seen before. *shrug* Some seasons are better than others. I don't get too worked up about this kind of thing.

by **PilotNut** Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:54 pm

Pilots Drop Road Test at Washington State

PULLMAN, Wash. --- Junior forward Ryan Nicholas scored a team-high 17 points and grabbed nine rebounds, but the Portland Pilots dropped a 72-60 decision to Washington State in non-conference action Saturday night at Beasley Coliseum. Brock Motum and Royce Woolridge combined for 49 points as the Cougars improved to 5-0 on their home court this season.

The Pilots (3-4) trailed by as much as 17 points in the first period and were behind 33-23 at the half. Portland pulled within six twice early in the second half as Nicholas drilled back-to-back three-pointers, but Motum and Woolridge would combine to score the next 11 points to push the margin back to double figures.

The lead would grow to 24 points late, before a final Pilot surge brought the margin back down.

Motum finished with 29 points on 10-for-20 shooting, while Woolridge had 20 on 6-of-11 from the field.

The Cougars (5-3) dominated the boards with a 45-27 rebounding advantage, including 12-4 margin on the offensive glass. WSU also had a 32-12 scoring margin in the paint. Portland took care of the basketball, committing just nine turnovers in the game.

The offense for both teams struggled in the first half as Portland shot 28 percent from the field and WSU was 36 percent. The Pilots finished at 36 percent for the game, while the Cougars made 12-of-23 in the second half to finish at 43 percent for the game.

Portland made a season-high of 11 three-pointers, five coming from Nicholas, but struggled at the free throw line (13-22). Freshman guard Oskars Reinfelds drilled both of his three-point attempts and has made his last four from beyond the arc.

Sophomore point guard David Carr finished with eight points and a season high six assists for the Pilots, while sophomore guard Kevin Bailey fouled out after 17 minutes with seven points.

Portland returns to the Chiles Center to host the No. 20-ranked UNLV Runnin’ Rebels on Tuesday at 8 p.m. The game will be nationally televised on ESPNU, while tickets are still available starting at $10 for adults and $5 for kids. Tickets are available through all Ticketmaster outlets, online at TicketMaster.com or by calling the Pilot Box Office at (503) 943-7525.

by DoubleDipper Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:59 pm

PurplePrideTrumpet wrote:
First world problem.

Nothing I haven't seen before. *shrug* Some seasons are better than others. I don't get too worked up about this kind of thing.

Hmmm, I remember telling Coach Chavez that some of us were getting up in years and would really like to see a WCC Championship before it's too late.

(Yes, we won the WCC tournament at Santa Clara 1996 under Rob Chavez, but not the regular season championship).

Are you saying we should concern ourselves with higher priorities? Nonsense!

Pilots @ WSU Saturday @ 7:30PM - Pac 12 Network - Page 2 Fiscal10

Pilots @ WSU Saturday @ 7:30PM - Pac 12 Network - Page 2 Fiscal10

by **PilotNut** Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:11 am

PurplePrideTrumpet wrote:Nothing I haven't seen before. *shrug* Some seasons are better than others. I don't get too worked up about this kind of thing.

No offense, PPT... but it is this type of apathy & low expectation that have allowed the program to dwell in "less than mediocrity" for decades. Embarassed

Aren't we well overdue for expecting more?

by **DaTruRochin** Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:59 am

Yep. Maybe Rev just got lucky with the poise and shooting ability with TJ and Stohl a few years ago. There is just no way for our bigs to do anything without good shooters to spread the floor or a real point guard to distribute.

The inequity in recruiting classes and having nobody to fill in at PG when Douglas left is kind of a hovering dark cloud. I don't know I really like Rev and his staff, but it seems like some of this was due to roster composition and planning...

by Geezaldinho Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:03 am

The inequity of our recruiting classes was a direct result of the empty cupboard when Rev got here, remember?

And the point guard problem didn't start when Timmy left. He didn't progress from freshman year and in fact regressed into a turnover machine.

And when it comes to expectations, let me ask which years you expected 20 game Win seasons at the start?

by NoPoNeighbor Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:15 am

Pretty bad game last night. I thought the turning point came when after Nicholas made both the free throws following Ken Bone's technical foul (I think this was early in the second half?). We were down by six at that point and had the ball with a chance to cut the lead even more. We made a sloppy pass, which WSU intercepted and went down the court and scored. They then went on another run and the game was over.

Kevin Bailey needs to get in control of himself. We can't win when he can't even play 20 minutes because he fouls out. The only reason this was not an even uglier blowout was that we (somehow) finally made some three-pointers.

by pilotram Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:30 am

My dad went to the game. He was "disappointed" that UP didn't bring their cheerleaders. I guess that's kinda like complaining about their uniforms?

by **DaTruRochin** Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:18 pm

Yeah, there WAS a bare cupboard, but just because you have empty space, doesn't mean you need to fill it with whatever is cheapest. My problem is the WAY we filled it and have yet to create any sort of balance between the classes, be it through red shirts, JC players, or heck just not having a full roster.

And yeah, I am well aware that Tim regressed, but that doesn't there was NOBODY behind him, just a collection of "combo" guards who aren't particularly effective at distribution OR shooting. Kind of a problem.

I didn't expect 20 years right away (maybe 3 years in if everything went right), but at the same time I didn't expect a return Holton-esque single digit win seasons either. I don't know, maybe I just liked the idea of going into most games knowing that we had at least a chance at winning... and come to think of it I don't really think that is asking too much.

by DoubleDipper Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:32 pm

Excerpt from Rev today that probably applies to all fans (including PN writers and lurkers) as well as the team:

....... losing crushes the spirit. Attacks the competitor in you. Requires true toughness to battle.

by DoubleDipper Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:39 pm

Curious, did anyone who posts here watch the game at Tom's last evening?
If so, how was it? drunken

Too controlling with the "clicker" myself (I like to continually rewind to evaluate plays and situations) to attend a public gathering of a basketball game telecast, but I bet there was quite a bit of beer drunk during and after the game.

by **DaTruRochin** Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:47 pm

Requires true toughness to battle.

Well, I mean I guess trying to watch basketball games on my laptop is kind of a battle....

by NoPoNeighbor Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:19 pm

I was at Tom's. Didn't see anyone else in the whole place paying attention to the game, but they had it on a big projector screen with the sound turned up! That's the gold standard for sports bar game viewing!

by **PilotNut** Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:41 pm

PurpleGeezer wrote:The inequity of our recruiting classes was a direct result of the empty cupboard when Rev got here, remember?

And the point guard problem didn't start when Timmy left. He didn't progress from freshman year and in fact regressed into a turnover machine.

And when it comes to expectations, let me ask which years you expected 20 game Win seasons at the start?

Rev certainly inherited a bare cupboard... but here we are, 7 seasons later, and it is still a problem. As DTR stated, it seems like we could have evened it out strategically. I dont know about others, but I am tired of hearing that we are "one of the youngest teams in the country." How many seasons has that been the case?!

Timmy certainly regressed, and we didnt have a strong replacement that could step in for him--bad luck on our part, I suupose. We will have Wintering next season, but we will be asking a lot of a freshman. By the time he is a sophmore, Nicholas, Thieleke and Tanner Riley will have graduated...

My point on expectations is on the program in general. First and foremost, UP has run an ethical and clean program, that focuses on the STUDENT-Athlete. Importantly, we have not (and can not) retreat on the "Student" part... but on the "Athlete" part... We have been to the NCAA Tournament once in the last 53 seasons pale

. The only other post season play was the 3 CIT berths in 2009, 2010 & 2011. We are 0-5 in all of these games pale

. In the 35 years since entering the WCC in the 1976-77 season, we have never won the conference. pale

We have earned a tie for 2nd place once (1994-95). We have come in 3rd place 4 times (twice under Rev) and 4th place 4 times. So, in 35 years, we have finished in the top half of the conference only 9 times, 26% of the time. That means 74% of the time (26 seasons), we have finished in the bottom half of the conference, and 7th or 8th place 13 times pale

(37% of our seasons in the WCC). We are 184-318 in WCC conference play (.367). pale

When do we say enough is enough?

"If you keep on doing what you've always done, you'll keep on getting what you've always got."

We have a newly renovated Chiles Center, but I am concerned that while it is nice, it was a "catch up" move (not necessarily getting us ahead of our competition, but rather catching up). We need to continually invest in the program. Looking at our WCC competition, obviously Gonzaga and BYU have superior basketball facilities. I have not seen the locker and training facilities at other schools, but I would think SCU and USD are similar due to new/renovated facilities, not sure on USF. Pepperdine has plans for a brand new basketball complex. That leaves SMC & LMU. I think LMU recently rebuilt their training facility, as well? (And SMC showing that facilities are not the be-all and end-all for success!)

I am not trying to be a downer or negative... just a realist. When is there going to be a systemic change in philosophy in the University Administration, CSC, Athletic Department, Students, Alumni, city, etc. to build a properous program?

by Guest Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:32 pm

PilotNut wrote:When is there going to be a systemic change in philosophy in the University Administration, CSC, Athletic Department, Students, Alumni, city, etc. to build a properous program?

That is the question. When the EACC was built, the attendance did not increase, even though the team was doing OK. A coaching change was made. Coach was a popular name in the community. Things did not get better. A coaching change was made. New coach had some success with carryover and transfer players, then performance regressed. Attendance did not increase. A coaching change was made. New coach was a known name in the community. Team performance struggled. Attendance did not improve. A coaching change was made. New coach has had some success, but now team performance has regressed. Attendance has not improved.

We know what hasn't worked. Some places just don't care, beyond a core group of enthusiasts. Stanford football has been stellar for three years; BCS games each year. They hosted the conference championship last Friday to earn their first Rose Bowl since 1999, and second since 1971. And the announced attendance, in a stadium with a $90M renovation only six years ago (that reduced capacity!), in a metropolitan area of over 7 million people, was less than 2/3 of capacity, only 32,000 people.

The solution isn't coaching. It is making people care. Wish I knew how to accomplish that.

by newpilotfan Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:03 pm

[quote="up7587"]

PilotNut wrote:

The solution isn't coaching. It is making people care. Wish I knew how to accomplish that.

Winning accomplishes that.

But you can't win if you don't recruit players that a capable of competing in your conference. Besides K. Bailey and Nicholas, who else on our roster would make the starting lineup on any other WCC team? Could Carr beat out Ireland for his spot at LMU? How many teams in our conference were clammoring for the services of Barker and J. Bailey? Winning begins in the summer. If we can't compete with WCC schools for recruits how can we expect to compete on the court?

by Guest Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:37 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:The inequity in recruiting classes...

Well, the inequity in recruiting classes is definitely a problem but - and I am probably oversimplifying things here - seems to be one that can fairly easily addressed. If Cason is gone for good, giving his scholarship to an incoming freshman for 2013-14 helps that significantly...and when that giant group graduates in 2015, using that on a juco transfer (big man??) would even out the numbers quite nicely...

2013 - Rodgers
2014 - Nicholas, Riley, Thieleke
2015 - J. Bailey, K. Bailey, Barker, Carr, Cason, van der Mars
2016 - Ehlers, Pressley, Reinfelds
2017 - Wintering, (Ahern)

by blacksheep Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:16 pm

newpilotfan wrote:

Winning accomplishes that.

Really? We had 3 great season, and attendance hardly moved. We only have a 5,000 seat arena and we couldn't even make our game with Gonzaga feel like a home game.

by **PilotNut** Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:21 pm

My opinion: Winning consistently does that... and winning some big home games. If I think about it, there is only 1 "big" game I can think of that we actually won at home in that stretch--beating SMC (and blowing them out) when they were ranked in 2011 (The original Nacho Night... remember that 27-2 run?!! Very Happy

). We had a lot of other wins in that time, but just not "eyebrow lifters" for the casual non-attending fan.

It seems like every other game, when all the stops are pulled out in terms of marketing, etc., we lose. We pull in a bigger crowd (the people that would most likely become regulars), and then we lose the game.

We lost to PSU when we got the ranking (and then proceeded to lose @ Idaho, too). We have not beat Gonzaga at home in eons. We beat the Ducks and Huskies, but that was before this time frame. It seemed like we got really close to increasing awareness, but we couldn't quite get it to stick... and now we are back to losing records.

If we could build some momentum and beat the Zags at Chiles (when the place is full of people who are most likely to be return fans who could be impressed and come back), when the students are rocking, the place is rowdy, the game is on ESPN... then we might get some traction.

Winning an NCAA tournament game would be huge, too. Think of the "free" media coverage that would follow...

by NoPoNeighbor Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:02 pm

I think a lot of the appeal of college basketball is the atmosphere. Some of that is a result of a winning team. But the student section also has a role to play. A first time attendee won't be excited about the atmosphere generated by 30-40 students, most of whom are sitting up at the top of a sparsely-populated student section paying more attention to smart phones than to the game.

Of course, the whole thing is mutually-reinforcing. Better teams generate more student support, which makes it more excited for non-students to attend. Winning generates more community support, which draws better recruits, which bring more fans, which helps the team get more wins, etc. However, the cycle can go the other way, too. And that's where UP is at now. It's hard to break a viscous cycle.

by ShipstadPilot11 Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:08 pm

NoPoNeighbor wrote:It's hard to break a viscous cycle.

Viscous: "Having a thick, sticky consistency between solid and liquid; having a high viscosity."

Now, having reduced your post down to one minor error, let me back up and say that I completely agree with you. The issue has been identified for some time now. The question that nobody can answer well is what do we do about it?! I don't expect you to have the answer, either. I just hope that if I ask the question enough times, someone will magically have the answer one time Smile

by NoPoNeighbor Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:13 pm

Absolutely, cycles with high viscosity are the most difficult to escape!

by **DaTruRochin** Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:18 pm

So what you're saying we need to switch to a 5W-40?

by Geezaldinho Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:32 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:So what you're saying we need to switch to a 5W-40?

Well, no, just the opposite, I would think. The word "viscosity" is derived from the Latin "viscum", meaning mistletoe. A viscous glue called birdlime was made from mistletoe berries and was put on twigs to catch birds.

So we gather up the mistletoe left over from Christmas and put it on the seats.

Problem solved.