Year round soccer?

by Geezaldinho Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:46 pm

The NCAA men's coaches are floating a proposal to extend games into the Spring and allow training year round to make college soccer more relevant to the world game.

http://thesoccerobserver.com/2014/07/20/college-soccer-looks-to-full-year-schedule-to-bolster-its-relevance/

by **DaTruRochin** Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:36 pm

OH FINE, I'll delete my posting of the same thing in a different section...

I don't see how it makes Men's soccer more "relevant" seeing that it won't change players leaving school early for professional contracts, nor will it increase the overall aptitude of college coaches...

I guess it is better for academics with the workload being spread over 2 semesters?

Also, if they are going to be "relevant," perhaps they will have to abide by FIFA timekeeping, substitution patterns and the like as well?

by UPSoccerFanatic Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:25 pm

It seems to me what they are proposing is to follow along with some of the other college sports where for those involved, the purpose for going to school is to play the sport as preparation for a professional career with going to classes and studying being an accompanying necessary evil to be ended as soon as the student athlete can get a professional contract. This is as distinguished from going to school for the classes and studying with participating in the sport as a supplemental and in some cases very important, activity. Of course there are gradations, and appropriate ones, between the two.

If this is done for men, it will have to be done for women too.

by **DaTruRochin** Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:14 pm

No, I think that is what they are TRYING to do, but those other sports don't have to compete with pro club run academies and have age restrictions before you can enter the professional ranks. I agree that if it is done for the men, it will go the same way for women, eventually. But they don't really need to do that immediately since there is a lot less opportunity for professional employment on the women's side of things. (BUT i could see benefits to switching that way, particularly with avoiding overuse injuries, ACL tears, etc that come from an overloaded schedule)

by UPSoccerFanatic Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:00 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:No, I think that is what they are TRYING to do, but those other sports don't have to compete with pro club run academies and have age restrictions before you can enter the professional ranks. I agree that if it is done for the men, it will go the same way for women, eventually. But they don't really need to do that immediately since there is a lot less opportunity for professional employment on the women's side of things. (BUT i could see benefits to switching that way, particularly with avoiding overuse injuries, ACL tears, etc that come from an overloaded schedule)

I think that if they do it for men, they'll have to do it simultaneously for women in order to meet the requirements of Title IX.

Plus, the Thorns are starting a pro club run academy. With all of the international options available for US women, it's not that different.

by **DaTruRochin** Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:52 pm

The Thorns are the only team in the league to do so thus far, and the overall longterm outlook for the women's pro league isn't completely transparent. Not only that the US is in a much different situation in the women's game overall relative to the USMNT, there just isn't the pressure to adapt for the women.

And would having the same number of games stretched over 2 seasons really make it that different for title IX purposes? As long as the funding is the same for both, from my understanding it wouldn't really matter. It might make more sense logistically, but I don't think there would be any actual requirement.

by Geezaldinho Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:18 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:The Thorns are the only team in the league to do so thus far, and the overall longterm outlook for the women's pro league isn't completely transparent. Not only that the US is in a much different situation in the women's game overall relative to the USMNT, there just isn't the pressure to adapt for the women.

And would having the same number of games stretched over 2 seasons really make it that different for title IX purposes? As long as the funding is the same for both, from my understanding it wouldn't really matter. It might make more sense logistically, but I don't think there would be any actual requirement.

Two things. Several of the league teams are affiliated with W league "reserve" teams. The Thorns are actually a little behind the norm.

And there is more than equal funding involved for tittle IX. Don't forget there are 85 football scholarships as the elephant in the room, and the justice department has made it clear that while they won't prosecute if schools are making forward progress, they will prosecute if schools backslide.

Tittle IX demands equal support for women in all aspects of sports, including staffing, facilities, publicity, and access. Men practicing 20 hours a week with time on the ball and women getting two hours in the non competition season would seem to me to not fall under equal protection.

by **DaTruRochin** Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:32 pm

With a reserve team, is that an actual academy set up, or is it just more like a place to get our bench players more PT? (I honestly don't know, but those are 2 very different things.)

Ah, yeah I hadn't looked into the practice time aspect of things ... that makes sense. At the same time, I don't really know how stretching 20 games over 9 months will really make the men's game more "relevant" in a FIFA perspective. It seems like an attempt to let teams shrink squad sizes because you won't have to keep as many people on the roster due to overuse injuries...

Side Note: Starting practices in February and March in New England is going to be awful.

by Geezaldinho Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:40 pm

Sky blue is both development and reserve teams. I think KC is, too.

In fact, most of the teams have a spread of ages and club teams in the mix.

Here was Sky Blue's announcement. As I understand it, Sky blue Soccer FC affiliated with a local club ( Jersey Blues FC) that has teams in all the age groups. I think that is a Gabarra organization. His wife is the coach at Navy.

http://www.jerseybluesfc.com/#!sky-blue/cwv0

(Feb. 12, 2014) - Sky Blue FC announced today the official formation of the Sky Blue FC Reserves.

The reserve team includes college players. It is a WPSL team

The reserve team, which will be comprised of elite-level college and amateur players, will be the exclusive development team for Sky Blue FC in 2014.

"Our Sky Blue reserve team is an important part of our club," Sky Blue FC Head Coach/Technical Director Jim Gabarra said. "We are focused on continued development of local players and our club with this platform."

Under the direction of Gabarra, Takayoshi Ishihara, who also serves as an assistant to the Sky Blue FC professional team, will manage the reserve team on a daily basis.

This relationship will enable continuity throughout the program and provide a professional atmosphere for the players. In addition to their own training and game schedule, there will be occasions where reserve players can be called up to train with the Sky Blue FC professional team.

Among the highlights of this affiliation will be the chance for the Sky Blue FC reserves to compete against other NWSL reserve teams and other top-level clubs in the region.

"We are excited to have an organized reserve team program this season," Sky Blue FC President/General Manager Tony Novo said. "As the only professional women's soccer team in the area, we are thrilled to offer this exclusive development opportunity to local players and look forward to growing the game throughout the region."

Details regarding tryouts will be released at a later date, but for more information regarding the Sky Blue FC Reserves, please contact Dave Jones at djones@skybluesoccer.com.

I think what might happen is that teams will move from the NCAA to PDL teams. BYU's men's team is already PDL

by **DaTruRochin** Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:35 pm

I was thinking something along the same lines as well, I suppose it could go to more of a club style format as well (a la the Ducks men's squad.)
Random PDL questions...
How does that work as far as franchising goes, I'm assuming BYU had to purchase a PDL franchise, or commit some sort of finances to be part of the league?
Can they qualify for the US Open Cup?
Can they pay their players since they aren't participating in the NCAA?
Also, would participation in PDL allow a school to dodge around Title IX?

.... I think I'm going to have to do some bylaw surfing when I have the time.

by UPSoccerFanatic Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:43 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:I was thinking something along the same lines as well, I suppose it could go to more of a club style format as well (a la the Ducks men's squad.)
Random PDL questions...
How does that work as far as franchising goes, I'm assuming BYU had to purchase a PDL franchise, or commit some sort of finances to be part of the league?
Can they qualify for the US Open Cup?
Can they pay their players since they aren't participating in the NCAA?
Also, would participation in PDL allow a school to dodge around Title IX?

.... I think I'm going to have to do some bylaw surfing when I have the time.

I can comment on the Title IX question: No. Title IX applies to the schools individually. They have to provide an opportunity to women to participate in sports that is equal to the opportunity they provide to men. Fundamentally, this means they have to provide support to women's sports that equals their support to men's sports, unless they can demonstrate that fewer women want to play sports than men.

by Geezaldinho Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:07 pm

BYU doesn't give scholarships for their PDL team, according to this article:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865607212/BYU-mens-soccer-begins-first-Premier-Development-League-Playoff-run-in-7-years.html?pg=all&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dbyu%2520pdl%2520soccerteam%2520scolarships%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26ved%3D0CCwQFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.deseretnews.com%252Farticle%252F865607212%252FBYU-mens-soccer-begins-first-Premier-Development-League-Playoff-run-in-7-years.html%253Fpg%253Dall%26ei%3DedXRU9jEFpGOyASN3oHgCw%26usg%3DAFQjCNHW5WpsCQjFxvXMMyrUNmOvvNw5mA%26bvm%3Dbv.71667212%2Cd.aWw

So it probably helps with title IX in counteracting their football scholarships.

This article gives a bit of insight into their workings.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700242628/De-flated-With-soccer-popular-among-boys-why-only-one-NCAA-sanctioned-mens-team-in-Utah.html?pg=all

And here is the wiki on the team, which explains a lot about the franchising, etc.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYU_Cougars_men's_soccer

It turns out BYU bought the franchise and Cecil O. Samuelson is listed as the owner.

He's BYU's president.

And being able to offer year round soccer is listed as a reason to go the PDL route.

by PurplePrideTrumpet Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:20 pm

Can they qualify for the US Open Cup?

The Timbers U23s have been in the Cup several times. The top few finishers in each region qualify.

Can they pay their players since they aren't participating in the NCAA?

When the Timbers signed Jake Gleeson they put him on the PDL team for 2010 before adding him to the senior squad the next year, so probably.

by **DaTruRochin** Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:58 am

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/wp/2014/07/27/is-mens-college-soccer-about-to-undergo-big-changes-many-hope-so/

Another related post... But the word "women" or Title IX isn't mentioned once.

Also, I was thinking, if they do away with unlimited subs (because with the cut down in games you really won't need as many), I would think you might see squad sizes trimmed down as well. What would UNC do without the ability (or the need) to stockpile 30+ athletes?

by Geezaldinho Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:24 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:
Also, I was thinking, if they do away with unlimited subs (because with the cut down in games you really won't need as many), I would think you might see squad sizes trimmed down as well. What would UNC do without the ability (or the need) to stockpile 30+ athletes?

Why would they not stockpile 30. ( or last year, 35) athletes?

They are still only forking out for 14 athletic scholarships. The rest comes from sources available to all students.

by **DaTruRochin** Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:46 pm

I mean I guess they still "can," but you really wouldn't "need" to for injury cover purposes. I guess it would more go to not being able to provide nearly as much playing time for players since they wouldn't be able to substitute en masse. They are entitled to divvy up scholarships as they choose I suppose, but unless your dream is to bask in the glory of Anson Dorrance while likely sitting on the bench for multiple seasons, it just doesn't make sense to me at all. But then again, who knows what 18 year olds are thinking anyway....

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