Where do we go from here?

Just wanted to start a separate thread for all the future of the program type discussions.

I know that I posted before about UGA firing Mark Richt and that UP needs to keep the quality coaches we have, but now I have to wonder where I stand on that. The Richt decision had me so bothered because UGA has the smallest, but most difficult, leap to make in hiring a new coach: the university wanted to go from being a contender to being a champion. There is almost everything to lose, given that the football program is already considered to be one of the elite, for such a small improvement in overall play.

UP, on the other hand, is in an entirely different position. A small program with everything to gain and nothing to lose. Can't be much worse than we are now, but we could be so much better. Heck, even just an NIT appearance would get me excited. Let me credit Coach Reveno with taking the program from relative shambles to mediocrity. Maybe some coaches are good at laying ground work for future success and some are good at taking groundwork and refining it for actual success.

Coach Reveno is someone I really, really respect. Everyone on TV says wonderful things about him and the staff. It seem that he and the staff do try hard to win every single game. This got me to thinking: "do people like him because he is a nice guy or because he is a good coach?" Mark Few is a nice guy and a nice coach. Randy Bennett seems like a NOT NICE guy but he definitely is a good coach. Rex Walters... well... Ultimately, where we go from here will all depend on what you want from the program and the coach. Everyone wants a  Mark Few/Joe Paterno-type coach, but those are RARE.

By the way, I am not advocating for anything. I'm just sharing my thoughts. Maybe the problem isn't even in the coaching... I'm cutting myself off for now...

Yup, I agree, UGAPilot, where do we go from here!!!

At the tournament again this year we are continually hearing from opposing fans and others about how much they like Rev and consider him a very good coach.

It's no secret the UP president also likes Rev and his excellent graduation rate, but more than once we've heard the UP AD say he's "all about wins."  So, in the final analysis it could come down to the AD convincing the president that he can hire a new head coach who will keep up the very high academic standings while raising the level of the basketball program.

Do I think there will be a change?  Yes....if the AD gets his way!

Will a change affect many of us? Absolutely!  The basketball staff are friends to many, and more importantly, they are mentors to many more.  Change can be difficult, and it affects the personal lives of families, associates, and friends.....yet eventual change is inevitable!

If there is a change, it will have to be to someone with head coaching experience at a school with high academic standards ....and it will have to be a coach who can form a staff that can RECRUIT, COACH, and MENTOR.

The fault is not in our coach but in the program.

I doubt that changing coaches will lead to improvement, though I understand and empathize with the frustration.

I suspect, though I do not keep nor know where I might access the statistics, that U.P. has the least resources to devote to its basketball program. And, if we are not last, we are near the last. More importantly, we are vastly out resourced by the better teams in the league. BYU and Gonzaga have so many more fans and a national reputation and significantly more money.

It is not a matter of attitude. I doubt it is xs and os. Reveno recruited better than Holton.

The merry-go-round of coaches has not brought us a winning program for nearly 30 years with limited exceptions of 1996 and Reveno’s early years. Avina, toward the end, Steele, Chavez, Holton and now Reveno. Shame on you Pilot basketball: you have become a graveyard for intelligent and able young coaches. And, you continue to make the same move over and over. But the wags here repeat every so often that it is the inability of the coach.

We can’t fire the fans and the administrators, nor is it popular to drop a division.

But those given to pollyannish statements about the program and the benefits of a coaching change live in an alternate reality without empirical data to support their position. The chant of a better future through a coaching change is an unproven siren song.

Rather than remaining here, I wonder whether Reveno and staff prefer moving on themselves?

What is the word on Maker?  How has he adjusted to the classroom? Will he be eligible next season? How does he look on the court?  
If he is as good as advertised, he may be the answer to the above question.  The Pilots have talent returning, but lack athleticism.  There's star power in Alec, but he's a small point guard.  They need some WOW on the court.  I was hoping Marshall might provide that this year, but he's not that guy.

DoubleDipper wrote:If there is a change, it will have to be to someone with head coaching experience at a school with high academic standards ....and it will have to be a coach who can form a staff that can RECRUIT, COACH, and MENTOR.

Agreed, but someone with HC experience at a school with superior academics that can recruit, coach, and mentor - and successful on the court - would be in exceptionally high demand. Given the many valid points that wrv brings up, how do you attract that guy to UP?

I like Coach Rev, I really do. I started coaching myself a couple of years ago (not basketball) and I found myself inadvertently "stealing" a ton of coaching philosophies that I'd seen Reveno talk or tweet about over the years. Emphasizing the importance of being a good teammate, accountability as a coach, putting players in a position to succeed. I've said this before, and I'll say it again - I don't know enough about the Xs and Os of basketball to have an informed opinion about how many of the losses over the past few seasons should be blamed on the coaching staff rather than extraneous factors.

That said, here's an old Oregonian article from when Reveno was hired -

Williams said he was "excited as heck." Everyone was excited. But everyone has been excited around the Chiles Center before. And the defense and teamwork preached by Reveno were the same things Holton talked about regularly.

It's a challenging job, and Gonzaga's success in the West Coast Conference is only forcing everyone else to get a little better, too. It's not just UP that wants to win.

Williams has said that in the past the program hasn't always had the resources it needed but that isn't the case anymore. Reveno said there was a difference between fluff and substance when it came to resources and from what he'd seen, UP is pretty well equipped to win. He said that if he needs something, he's sure he'll be able to get it.

That's from 2006. It's now 2016, and change out a couple of names and you could write this exact same paragraph and it could still be relevant. AD who wants to win, UP prepared to spend resources to win, Gonzaga's success forcing the WCC to get better.

I don't know what a coaching change would accomplish. If you put together a list of qualifications you'd like a new head coach for the Pilots to have, it would likely look eerily similar to the list of qualifications that Reveno had coming out of Stanford. What a decision to have to make, and I'm sure glad I'm not the one that has to make it.

Dave Rice is available.

Terry Cahill wrote:I don't know what a coaching change would accomplish. If you put together a list of qualifications you'd like a new head coach for the Pilots to have, it would likely look eerily similar to the list of qualifications that Reveno had coming out of Stanford. What a decision to have to make, and I'm sure glad I'm not the one that has to make it.

I agree with your thoughts here...  I like Reveno, too... but the results under him are indisputable--he is not getting it done Win/Loss-wise (and to the other point, neither has any other recent coach), nor is the current trend towards material improvement--one could argue the trend is going the other direction.

So, if you don't change the coach, what do you change?  I know that the U has stepped up big time in terms of funding for recruiting, facilities have been renovated/added recently, and I believe Rev has asked for and received additional fund for Assistant Coach salaries...   The U has increased its investment materially in recent years, and the results have not changed.  We have a new President and Athletic Director (both I think are material factors in the upcoming decision), who may want to go in a different direction.

If Rev is not retained, I really hope that the U has the inside track on a solid replacement...  I will be really disappointed if we end up with another unproven Assistant Coach from somewhere.  We need a coach with demonstrated results, but as you note, that does not come cheap, and if that candidate had multiple opportunities, convincing them to step into a program mired in defeat is no easy task (see my comment in the other thread about $$$).  Look at where USD ended up... extensive coaching search, presumably bigger pool of $, located in a hotbed of talent, and they ended up with Lamont Smith?  He is the type of Coach that UP has hired historically with not much success (rumor has it they were turned down left and right before hiring him).

If Rev is retained, what changes would need to happen?  I have always been surprised about the lack of turn over with assistants...  I know Rev is loyal, but if things aren't working out, he needs to make changes.  What else can be done--even if the U gave the program a blank check?  I don't know what else (besides a new coach) would give the program the severely needed change in culture?

Keating out at SCU.  Keating's resume was better than Rev's.

LINK

Keating Will Not Return as Men’s Basketball Coach

SANTA CLARA, Calif. – Head men's basketball coach Kerry Keating will not return to the Santa Clara bench next season.  

The Broncos finished the season with an 11-20 record, including 7-11 mark in league action. Keating, who compiled a 139-159 record at the school, led the Broncos to the 2013 College Basketball Invitational postseason tournament title. Two years prior, the Broncos won the CollegeInsider.com postseason championship. A nationally-focused search for a new coach will proceed immediately.

"Coach Keating has been very dedicated to our men's basketball program over the past nine years," said director of athletics Renee Baumgartner. "I thank Kerry for his commitment to our student-athletes."    

The Broncos were successful in the classroom during Keating's tenure with at least one player earning a spot on the WCC All-Academic team in eight of his nine seasons. Under Keating, all 22 players who reached their senior season earned degrees. The basketball program has a 100-percent graduation rate the last eight years.

A number of players earned accolades for their on-court success. Keating coached two WCC Freshman/Newcomer of Year players in Kevin Foster (2008-09) and Jared Brownridge (2013-14). Six of his players earned all-league accolades a total of 13 times. In addition, seven of his players earned a spot on the WCC All-Freshman team, including current members Brownridge (2013-14), Matt Hubbard (2014-15), and KJ Feagin (2015-16).

Before being hired on April 6, 2007, Keating spent the previous four seasons as an assistant coach at UCLA, helping the Bruins reach the NCAA Final Four in 2006 and 2007. He was also an assistant coach at Tennessee (2001-03), Tulsa (2000-01), Appalachian State (1998-2000), his alma mater Seton Hall (1995-98), and Vanderbilt (1994-95).

Keating, a native of Stoughton, Massachusetts, who was raised in Rockville Centre, New York, got his start in coaching by serving as an administrative assistant for Wake Forest during the 1993-94 season.

PilotNut wrote:So, if you don't change the coach, what do you change? I know that the U has stepped up big time in terms of funding for recruiting, facilities have been renovated/added recently, and I believe Rev has asked for and received additional fund for Assistant Coach salaries...

I have wondered about the assistant coach situation. We went from Mike Wolf and Herb Brown, guys with a total of something like 60 years experience in college and pros, to Kramer Knutson and Mitch Johnson, guys with no experience coaching at those levels. I'm sure they are great guys; are they the key to winning? They are Rev's guys, so he wanted them. He'll succeed or fail as a head coach on the strength of his assistants.

Recruiting is the answer to all talent concerns. The assistants need to be great recruiters. I see Rev's tweets, and he is a tireless recruiter. But is the rest of the staff contributing there? I have no idea.

I agree that the criteria for a new coach would look remarkably like Rev in every area but wins and losses. The AD's skill in hiring new coaches is unproven. The WBB coach had a terrible 2nd year. The new baseball coach is off to a good start; we'll see how he sustains it. The new men's soccer coach seems strong, but there are no on-field results to evaluate yet.

I am not an advocate for change. But I sure hope for improvement.

PilotNut wrote:Keating out at SCU.  Keating's resume was better than Rev's.

SCU would be a direct competitor for the kind of coach UP would want. It is a limited pool. Is that a factor? We'll know soon, as any search for a new coach or assistants would want to be started before the Final Four coaches convention.

I'm back for more. Here are my two thoughts:

1. Perhaps we need to establish an endowed basketball fund. That's not unheard of for some programs to have dedicated funds you donate to. I'm not talking about required donations for season tickets, but establishing something that directly benefits the basketball program.

2. Regardless of which direction we go, we need to establish some measurable and attainable expectations for the program. Here is what I would want from a new coach:
- 1st year: maintain record (achieve winning record for Rev)
- 2nd year: make a post season tournament (win a post season game from Rev)
- 3rd year: make the NIT or win a post season game (Rev makes NIT or NCAA)
- 4th year: make the NCAA tournament
- Graduation rates about 90% and have a player make the all-conference academic teams
- In this four year time span, recruit at least one ESPN Top 100, Kevin Bailey-hype, type recruit.
I hope that seems realistic. I don't know what is in Rev's contract (you can bet that Richt's explicitly stated "win a championship"), but these types of expectations should be in there in order to hold people accountable.

Sarcasm: I understand David Blatt is available. So is Derek Fisher.

Some thoughts on the current coaching staff, in no particular order:

1. UP has ousted 3 coaches over the past two years after too-long, too-mediocre tenures (BB, MSOC, VB). Why would MBB be any different? The AD seems to have bought-in to the notion that a coaching change is the first step toward fixing a broken program. I've gotta assume that philosophy also applies to MBB. The only question is, does he believe that this program is truly broken (as he did for the other three)?

2. I think the overwhelming positive reaction to Reveno (from fans, opposing fans, journalists, etc.) is because he is a nice guy who is personable and funny and good on social media. NOT because he has any special coaching acumen. I hope his general popularity is not a factory in the decision, for good or for ill.

3. Yes, he seems to put a lot of energy into recruiting, but there are always several obvious "misses" on the roster: players who simply have no business on a D-I team, but who Reveno is giving a scholarship to. On this year's Pilots' roster, we could all name 3 or 4 such players.

4. One major factor in this year's poor performance was the lack of any inside offense. The coaching staff is to blame. This is a recruiting failure. The need for a reliable interior player in the 2015 recruiting class was obvious for at least two years, and Ray Barreno was the best that Reveno and company could do.

5. Even without knowing basketball Xs and Os very well, I think there is ample evidence that the Pilots' basic offensive and defensive schemes, and in-game coaching, leaves much to be desired. The failure to win close games and failure to win a single game that they were trailing at half-time is indicative of a coaching staff that can't make in-game adjustments, and can't figure out how to "set the players up for success" in a close game. (Yes, you can look at any individual loss and say, "Reveno isn't the one who missed 8 shots in a row," but that argument doesn't hold water when looking at a systematic, years-long trend.) And then there is something like basic inbounds plays, which to me looks like a microcosm of the Reveno tenure: he just can't figure out how to fix a problem that is recurring year after year after year.

6. The half-court offense looks like it is running in some sort of slow-motion practice mode. Watch a few possessions on tape! One guy moves at a time. He gets the ball, then stands still waiting for the next guy to complete a long, obvious cut or curl. It is like they are under strict instructions to receive the pass and then count to three before making any move. We sure wouldn't want to make the next pass or cut without giving the defense a fair chance to get set! What a dream for opposing coaches to scout and prepare for. At least half the time, the guards have to motion or yell at the post player to come set a screen. Why don't they already know to do that?

7. For all the public preaching about defense and toughness and defensive commandments, the Pilots were near the bottom of the WCC in most defensive stats.

8. I'd love to see Reveno's list of "things I need to be successful in this job that I haven't had access to." Is there anything on that list? Could any of those hypothetical items be addressed without firing him? Does he need some "professional education" (i.e. coaching clinics, mentorship)? Does he need new assistants? Does he need a bigger recruiting budget? Does he need UP to make an immediate, strong commitment to greater campus-wide diversity (Please read Malika Andrews' excellent article in the Beacon: https://t.co/8ht3yZC5gv)?

And with regard to a potential new coach... I don't necessarily agree that "it will have to be to someone with head coaching experience at a school with high academic standards."

The Pilots could use some mojo around the basketball program. Why not go for a coach who could make UP hoops into a big deal in the city of Portland? Someone with NW or Portland cache? Someone who could get the local youth basketball scene fired up about UP? Get the top local players to come to the Bluff... And get more fans in the seats... Combine that with the criteria of significant coaching experience. The high academic standards will be there regardless. We know that.

How about Terry Porter? Damon Stoudamire? Jack Sikma?

Maybe if we spent six times what we currently do to match Gonzaga in recruiting, staff, and facilities we could see if it is Reveno or not.

For what it is worth, I do not perceive the atmosphere around the program/team as similar to that of Chavez’ team or Holton’s team when they were let go.

Those teams seemed demoralized. And, the talent left to the incoming coach was limited.

There is more talent here than when those changes were made. Reveno’s team is not a basket case: despite a poor win loss record his team was competitive almost in every game, save games with a good Gonzaga team.

Though no one is happy about the losses, the team does not suffer the same level of demoralization as past teams when coaching changes occurred.

I'd like to see more money spent on a high profile assistant. Having Herb Brown for a year was great, but he is so old everyone knew it wasn't going to be permanent. Almost like co-head coaches? Rev is very good at some things, but I really think he needs help in game situations. He seems to concentrate a lot on individual player development even in the game, rather than winning the game. Player development is obviously important, but....the few times I have been close enough to the Pilots bench to hear I got the impression he overcoaches during games, which will get players overthinking and in their own way when they should be on autopilot. Normally I sit closer to the opposing bench and it does not appear that opposing coaches do as much in game coaching.

Three thoughts
1.  Who is accountable for our lousy performance?
-  When we had those few 20 win seasons (seems like decades ago), we all said Reveno was brilliant, the Oregonian said he was the best coach in Oregon. He got complete credit and a whole lot of adoration.
-  With a string of losing seasons, we've blamed the AD, the program, the facilities, the assistant coaches, the budget, the players, and (occassionally) Reveno.
-  Something seems amiss

2.  If it is Reveno, what's missing?
- First off, as we always do, one must praise him for his accessibility, being genuinely nice, his focus on academics and graduations and a host of other positive attributes, BUT
-  What happened to our "big man coach?"
-  Why can't we win close games?
-  Why can't we ever win if we're behind at half?
-  Why do we have lousy end of season records?
-  Why can't we do anything post season (see fired coaches Bill Grier and Kerry Keating for comparison)?

My theory is as good as he may be in many areas, when the going gets tough, he lack those qualities essential to keep the team together, inspired, confident, and playing strategically.  He may know what they are, but he struggles to convey them.  Instead there is a creeping sense of desperation.   You can see it him and it shows in the results.   (I apologize for being so blunt and negative - I'm not a coach, just a moose offering theories)

3.  To go or not to go
-  There are 350 D1 basketball schools.   I would guess a third to half have consistent winning records.   The rest are either looking for answers or coaches or (as the advertisement for DirectTV suggests) they're "settlers" - living with mediocrity or worse.
-  Oregon State hired Wayne Tinkle two years ago.  He increased attendance 48% the first year and more this year.  He brought back the Far West classic (not alone, but his inspiration and hard work), and a whole lot of class and positive PR for OS. And they have a fair chance of being invited to the dance.  
-  I don't make comparisons to Gonzaga, BYU, or SMC.  They're all in unique positions (i.e. Long winning record, Australian pipeline, Mormon pipeline with older kids).  But look at what Marty Wilson has done at Pepperdine for the last four years, and (bless his heart) Rex Walters generally has a good teams at USF.  

Conclusion - let's not be settlers
-  It's demoralizing to be a Pilot fan.  I got in the elevator at the Orleans yesterday and somebody asked who I was supporting. I said I was from Portland and got three condolences.  
-  Graduations are always a priority, but it's not impossible to have a winning program and good academics.  We do it in other sports.
-  It must be very hard to raise money for a bottom dwelling program.  And on the contrary, it can flow with little effort when you're a winner.  
- In the end, I'd just say this all has gotten too old for too long with too many excuses.  Do something.

I certainly agree UP can have high academic standards AND a winning team....it would appear that GU has no problem in either area.

There is NO doubt winning consistently will bring more applications from talented and deserving students and many more and larger donations to UP, and one would think increased applications and $$$, would be a priority of the administration,  but is it?

Comments from the UP Provost  (second in command to the president) indicating that finishing 7th is OK because the graduation rate is 100%, would indicate otherwise.

It is certain we fans want and deserve consistent winners in all sports....unfortunately we don't set the priorities.

DoubleDipper wrote:It is certain we fans want and deserve consistent winners in all sports....unfortunately we don't set the priorities.

We can, however, exert influence. I would encourage everyone to let their feelings be known. Talk to the Athletic Department. Send a letter to the Provost and President. If we don't, we can't complain about a lack of change.

Yesterday I shared some concerns with the current coaching staff. Today, some reasons to keep Reveno:

1) He is getting local recruits. I think this bodes well for the program's ability to build a sustainable fan base and become a destination for local talent. Over the past few years: Livingston, Taylor, Johnson, Hallinan, Smoyer, Bonton.

2) 100% graduation rate. Good!

3) Willingness to try new things: He's hired new assistants and video people, implemented a new offensive approach, embraced new technologies and media.

4) Fit with University values and philosophy. It would be hard to find a coach who would rank higher in this area.

5) Great track record of helping players find professional opportunities after leaving UP.

Unfortunately, I couldn't come up with anything related to actual basketball performance to add to this list, other than "we were good for three years, five years ago." I suppose that is telling. Oh wait...

6) We've beat PSU five times in a row!

I've been waiting to chime in here...but I'm not really sure what to say.

This is the window to hire/dismiss coaches. It closes quickly and you don't want to be the guy without a new HC when the dominoes begin to fall and the music stops.

Ken Bone? Craig Robinson? Keating? Bill Grier? Can anyone identify a coach who might consider taking the job who might be better than the current coach? Hard to do.

We can predict with a high degree of probability that the program will regress if the staff is changed.

Just saw this Oregonian article on Luke Jackson. That would be a nice local connection if UP were to go that route.

wrv wrote:Ken Bone? Craig Robinson? Keating? Bill Grier? Can anyone identify a coach who might consider taking the job who might be better than the current coach? Hard to do.

If a change is made, it's obvious none of us will be on the search committee, but I can think of one college head coach on the East Coast who has considerable WCC success as an assistant already on his resume...

No, not Erik Spoelstra, he's an NBA coach.....

I too have been waiting to throw in my two cents. I'm in favor of keeping Reveno around for the record, I especially want to see what Maker, and the incoming class can bring, but I wouldn't be all too surprised if the administration felt differently.

A few thoughts on the assistant coaches: I'm not all too sure the process when hiring assistants, and I see tremendous value in every hire they've made so far, but I've always felt that assistant coaches with a new perspective could bring a lot to the table. I remember an interview I think that Rev did when Herb Brown was around and he basically was saying that the rest of the staff was so familiar with each other and the routine and Herb brought a whole new perspective to the program. Now the impact that had, I'm not sure, but I have felt that bringing in an experienced, fresh to the program, set of eyes could really help.

What Could Have Been: I think this team had a variety of issues throughout the season, but one was consistent post play. Now I'm not sure exactly how close Drew Eubanks was to signing with Portland, but man could he have helped us out. This is a guy who the staff identified early and went after hard and fell just short. The staff's ability to audible and make things work the way they did was fine, especially for a program with our reputation, but Eubanks could have really helped. I don't really know my point here, its just what I thought every time I watched the Beavers.

A few names: Now this is 100% just me speculating every aspect of this, but since no one has thrown out names, I figured I'd lay out what I would do if I were in charge of finding a new coach. Keep in mind I have never gone through a coaching search and really don't know what it looks like in any way.
My first call would be to Erik Spoelstra. It may be a courtesy, and it may not even be the best fit, but he is one of a couple handfulls of living coaches with an NBA championship so yes he gets the first call.
Then I'd start the list of people with a connection. I'd make sure to reach out to Ben Sullivan of the Atlanta Hawks. Having success and a UP connection. I'm not sure how he would fair as a head coach but at least try to get him on the staff.  
I'd also reach out to Mike Fratello, with the possibility of Pooh coming on as an assistant.  

Trust me I understand how fantastical this all is and obviously this is the list that you interview from.

Next step is to figure out a list of head coaches and top assistants that dont really have a connection to UP but could be gettable. unemployed head coaches, as well head coaches who may be looking to upgrade to UP could be a short list, but a random name South Alabama's Matthew Graves. He was on the 2009-2010 Butler coaching staff, which could be my favorite college team of all time, so it's more of me having a man-crush on that team than anything else. I'd also list out top assistants on winning programs, I think bringing in a winning mentality could go a long way. I'd look at a few schools: Gonzaga, Notre Dame, and Virginia to name a few.

I'd also look at NBA assistants with a Portland connection, but sometimes NBA to college doesn't translate as well as we would hope.

Again, I'm in the "Keep Reveno" camp, i just thought i'd layout where I would start. If any of the people I mentioned would accept a job at UP? That is the million dollar question.