Men's Basketball - State of the Program

That Hawaii tournament will be brutal for the Pilots. A couple of interesting coaching tree connections there with both Georgia Tech (Reveno) and UTEP (Cantu) in the tournament.

bobtcat2 wrote:I'm standing by my prediction that a coaching change will be made before next season begins.  No reason for Porter to go through another season of this mess when it's not only not working, it's getting worse.

Only two ways:

Porter walks away.

The trustees buy his contract.

Won’t happen this year.

NoPoNeighbor wrote:That Hawaii tournament will be brutal for the Pilots. A couple of interesting coaching tree connections there with both Georgia Tech (Reveno) and UTEP (Cantu) in the tournament.

Hoop Scoop is calling it the greatest non-conference tournament of all time!

Dean Murdoch wrote:

NoPoNeighbor wrote:That Hawaii tournament will be brutal for the Pilots. A couple of interesting coaching tree connections there with both Georgia Tech (Reveno) and UTEP (Cantu) in the tournament.

Hoop Scoop is calling it the greatest non-conference tournament of all time!

  Good one!

Woodless 2.0 wrote:I wonder how much longer the WCC will tolerate this? What if we average single digit D1 wins over the next two years?

You guys are all absolutely right, it starts at the top. Beauchamp knew the business of intercollegiate athletics...that's how we got the ball rolling in the early Reveno era.

I have a ton of respect for the other CSCs that have held that office but their priorities are so different from Bill's. Barring major board pressure ($$) I think we are stuck for a good long while.

I wonder how much longer Gonzaga will enjoy splitting NCAA receipts with UP.

Dean Murdoch wrote:

JimmAlacki wrote:If you look at the program's history over the past 30 years, it's disingenuous to defend the administration. Schedule enough weak teams it will make them look more competitive than they are. This year's non conference schedule was pathetic. A D1 record of 5-24 is bad enough but when you see the games they did win it speaks clearly

The Pilots were 5-7 over a non-conference schedule that was the 337th toughest out of 353 D1 teams this year. Would you rather they have scheduled tougher and gone like 3-9 or something? Who cares?

I would rather lose by 20-25 to a decent D! team then knock off Lewis and Clark, Multnomah, etc and beat the University of Alabama/Mississippi State Line

I would imagine if Porter went 0-31 or 2-29 he definitely would not return which would make the school act.

Some one at UP probably thinks it will get us a higher draft pick

JimmAlacki wrote:I wonder how much longer Gonzaga will enjoy splitting NCAA receipts with UP.

They already don't enjoy it, and resent UP and the other "bottom feeders" in the WCC. Hence all the drama last year about going to the Mountain West, and the concessions the WCC made about eliminating the round robin schedule and changing the tournament format.

But until they can sell their physical property in Spokane and move the university closer to the Big East Conference, they're stuck with us. I doubt they could force the conference to kick UP out. I suppose they could change the conference rules about distribution of NCAA money.

up7587 wrote:But until they can sell their physical property in Spokane and move the university closer to the Big East Conference, they're stuck with us.

I'm going to go wayyyyyy out on a limb and guess this is Gonzaga's last year in the WCC.

At the end of the day, money talks. With the Pac-12 floundering the way it is in both football and basketball and the commissioner under fire, I'm guessing they'll do something drastic and invite Gonzaga immediately following the conclusion of this season.

Yeah getting ranked ONE in the country is all the WCC’s fault.

I wonder how good Gonzaga’s pointy ball team is?
Are they prepared to spend half a billion on a stadium and another half on coaches?


The fact that the PAC has set itself up so that the commissioner gets the same as a member school is their own stupidity and sure isn’t an indication they will do anything smart, realignment wise. Bringing in a little school near Idaho with 5,000 seat arena isn’t going to boost their bankroll any.

They would do better inviting BYU.

Geezaldinho wrote:Bringing in a little school near Idaho with 5,000 seat arena isn’t going to boost their bankroll any. They would do better inviting BYU.

The P12 is over halfway through that giant deal they signed with Fox/ESPN. That expires after the 2023-24 season, and I'd guess that renegotiations would start no later than 2022 which is somehow only three years away now. You talk about boosting bankroll...I would certainly think a media deal which includes men's hoops as a major element would be worth significantly more if it includes a school that's finished the season as a top-ten Kenpom team five of the last seven years.

P12 football has only had two teams make the college football playoff in the five years they've had it. By any metric, P12 basketball is facing a stiff challenge by the WCC to be the top basketball conference in the west. Gonzaga isn't tailing off any time soon by the looks of the recruiting class that Few is bringing in...the P12 has got to do something, and I think it's going to be to add GU.

And a precedent for a high-caliber school joining a football conference without a football team already exists - Wichita State from the Missouri Valley to the American.

Dean Murdoch wrote:

And a precedent for a high-caliber school joining a football conference without a football team already exists - Wichita State from the Missouri Valley to the American.

There is a huge difference between the American conference and the PAC 12. Gonzaga simply doesn't fit in the PAC 12.

Frankly, I don't think Gonzaga really wants to leave the WCC. Sure, they act like it, but that's just so they could get the concessions they got last year. They have a model that has allowed them to compete for championships year after year. Do you think they really want to shake that up?

My understanding is that in the last round of conference realignment, the Pac-12 presidents were heavily biased towards members of the Assoc. of American Universities. Eight of the current members belong. The only schools in the western US who belong to the AAU that are not in the Pac-12 already are schools in the UC system (Davis, Irvine, etc.) and Caltech. And both GU and BYU are in markets that already have a Pac-12 member (Wazzu, Utah), so neither brings any new households to their network.

blacksheep wrote:

Dean Murdoch wrote:

And a precedent for a high-caliber school joining a football conference without a football team already exists - Wichita State from the Missouri Valley to the American.

There is a huge difference between the American conference and the PAC 12.  Gonzaga simply doesn't fit in the PAC 12.  

Frankly, I don't think Gonzaga really wants to leave the WCC.  Sure, they act like it, but that's just so they could get the concessions they got last year.  They have a model that has allowed them to compete for championships year after year.  Do you think they really want to shake that up?

Once GU gets the WCC to let them keep all their NCAA money, they'll have no reason to leave.

up7587 wrote:And both GU and BYU are in markets that already have a Pac-12 member (Wazzu, Utah), so neither brings any new households to their network.  

Well that is blatantly inaccurate. BYU's fan base is massive and extends around the globe. BYU's fans are not fans because they live in close proximity to campus, but because they have religious ties to the school. The fact that Utah is already in the conference should have no impact.

Last night was the merciful end to a tragic season.  I feel sorry for the Porter family, but even more sorry for all our players.   This was the year the promise of this team was going to begin being fulfilled.  Instead their incredibly hard work and dedication just brought disappointment and frustration.   The only thing that could make it worse is the prospect of doing it all over again next year.  If Terry doesn't want to leave graciously, than pay him to recruit, or scout, or be our good-will ambassador, or just pay him to stay home and let one of the assistants take over.

bullwinkle wrote:Last night was the merciful end to a tragic season.  I feel sorry for the Porter family, but even more sorry for all our players.   This was the year the promise of this team was going to begin being fulfilled.  Instead their incredibly hard work and dedication just brought disappointment and frustration.   The only thing that could make it worse is the prospect of doing it all over again next year.  If Terry doesn't want to leave graciously, than pay him to recruit, or scout, or be our good-will ambassador, or just pay him to stay home and let one of the assistants take over.

If you want Terry to not be our coach next year, you or some other booster will need to step up and cut the check. Maybe it will happen, but I doubt it. My estimate is that he has 2 years left at $500K a year. It will only cost you a cool Million.

blacksheep wrote:If you want Terry to not be our coach next year, you or some other booster will need to step up and cut the check.  Maybe it will happen, but I doubt it.  My estimate is that he has 2 years left at $500K a year.  It will only cost you a cool Million.

Will TP hang around if BOTH Franklin and Malcolm transfer?

I'm not suggesting it will happen, but if both his sons were to leave the program, would TP be motivated to stick around for any reason beyond proving he's a better coach than his record indicates?  Oh, and the $1million...

DoubleDipper wrote:

blacksheep wrote:If you want Terry to not be our coach next year, you or some other booster will need to step up and cut the check.  Maybe it will happen, but I doubt it.  My estimate is that he has 2 years left at $500K a year.  It will only cost you a cool Million.

Will TP hang around if BOTH Franklin and Malcolm transfer?

I'm not suggesting it will happen, but if both his sons were to leave the program, would TP be motivated to stick around for any reason beyond proving he's a better coach than his record indicates?  Oh, and the $1million...

You could probably buy him out for a single year if TP didn't think he could succeed. I don't think he would stick around if the next two years are more of the same. The key would be if Walker and/or Shaver decide to transfer. I can't imagine this team next year without the 4 seniors and Walker and Shaver. I think Shaver and Walker are talented and WCC caliber. At this time of the year, you would have to recruit some 5th year seniors as the JUCO and unsigned quality players are gone. Who are you going to sign if they know Porter will probably be canned? The key would be if Shaver and Walker have already voiced an intention that if Porter returns they won't.

The program HAS to do something....status quo is unacceptable. Its an embarrassment to the school. I wont be renewing season tickets and pilot club if nothing changes. The games are painful to watch, they struggle to score 50-60 points and are routinely blown out. If they were playing hard as a team, losing close games, getting better, etc., it would be understandable but its no where close. Bums me out as TP will always be one of my favorite Trail Blazers!

piloted wrote:The program HAS to do something....status quo is unacceptable. Its an embarrassment to the school. I wont be renewing season tickets and pilot club if nothing changes.  The games are painful to watch, they struggle to score 50-60 points and are routinely blown out. If they were playing hard as a team, losing close games, getting better, etc., it would be understandable but its no where close. Bums me out as TP will always be one of my favorite Trail Blazers!

I have had several season tickets for about 5 years and have attended UP games for about 20 years. This team is the worst team fundamentally and talent wise. If something doesn't change within the next few months, we won't be renewing. It will have to be more than Porter telling the fans they are committed to approving. I think one or two of the assistants will be on the chopping block. Sacrificial lambs.

DoubleDipper wrote: I do think there will be a bit of a coaching "shake-up" in terms of responsibility and positioning during the offseason, as well as a change in recruiting priorities and standards.

JimmAlacki wrote: I think one or two of the assistants will be on the chopping block. Sacrificial lambs.

I don't think there will be any "sacrificial lambs."

IMO, the Pilots need coaches who can DEVELOP the talent they've recruited.  Whether a coach leaves or the coaching responsibilities change, it will be all about player development going forward.  

Losing Kramer as an assistant hurt because he is very good at helping a player with physical, technical, and mental development.  Tyler's hiring was certainly a step up in terms of overall experience, and I see his role expanded going forward, but if there is to be a change, it's going to have to be toward finding a coach who may not be a renowned recruiter, but one who can develop recruits.

Had a quick chat with TP and Ben at yesterday's OSAA high school tournament where they were evaluating talent for the future, and I'll tell you what, I would really dislike the life of a college coach with regard to it being a 365 day-a-year vocation/grind that leaves you little time for a "real life."

Are you saying that none of the assistants are leaving? Or are you suggesting there may be a coaching change but it would be for cause? With a 5-24 D1 record and 0-17 conference- either the 1) the players are not D1 calibre and/or 2) the coaches can't get them to play to their talent.

Obviously it's not 100 % the coaches fault but what percentage is the coaches, the players and let's not forget the athletic department and the school administration.

I hope he's not placing any of the blame on the fans

JimmAlacki wrote:Are you saying that none of the assistants are leaving?

I am suggesting that player development is the key to turning the program around.

Player development includes the physical, mental, and technical aspects of the game, and academic support.

If anyone on the current coaching, conditioning, training, or academic staffs is not helping the players develop individually and/or as a team, then changes should be made.

It's up to Scott Leykam to make the tough decisions regarding athletic department personnel and changes, and it's up to Fr. Mark and the UP Board of Regents to not only support those decisions/changes, but to take the necessary action to improve not just MBB, but all UP athletic programs.

DoubleDipper wrote:

JimmAlacki wrote:Are you saying that none of the assistants are leaving?

I am suggesting that player development is the key to turning the program around.

Player development includes the physical, mental, and technical aspects of the game, and academic support.

If anyone on the current coaching, conditioning, training, or academic staffs is not helping the players develop individually and/or as a team, then changes should be made.

It's up to Scott Leykam to make the tough decisions regarding athletic department personnel and changes, and it's up to Fr. Mark and the UP Board of Regents to not only support those decisions/changes, but to take the necessary action to improve not just MBB, but all UP athletic programs.

I would assume Leykam should be under some heat. If the players are not WCC caliber it lays at the coaches who recruited them.

DoubleDipper wrote:UP’s schedule will be slightly better next season, and even better the following year, but I think we can still expect the two allowed games with non-D1 opponents at the beginning of the 2019-2020 season.

Do you know any specifics about next year's schedule besides the tournament? I'm assuming Northridge and Fullerton at home, and possibly PSU at Chiles as well if the Pilots don't owe them another game for when Stott was being renovated?