Re: Recruiting Guards 2012

by NoPoNeighbor Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:40 pm

The WCC won't be short on good front court players next season. Blackwell at USF and Waldow at SMC are going to continue to be forces inside. Dower at Gonzaga will fill Sacre's shoes. I think Davies stays, making BYU solid down low, too. If van der Mars bulks up and continues to improve, I think we can compete on the inside, especially with Nicholas down there, too. I agree with up7587 that the back court is a bigger concern.

by upsailor Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:13 pm

Keep our fingers crossed that everybody stays and Rev will have his usual spring workouts along with Scott's program and hope fully next season is a turn around

by oldtimer Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:52 pm

goldhelmet wrote:
ShipstadPilot11 wrote:Tanner is probably the purest shooter on the team. I have high hopes for Jake Ehlers. David Carr has played well for a freshman. Riley Barker is coming back, presumably as a sophomore.

I think a PG makes us a middle-of-the-WCC team with the chance to regularly scare or beat the big boys.

Honestly, I see the view of us being one PG away from competing with the top 5 in the WCC as unrealistic. We definitely need more than just a PG - we need multiple players - and players of higher caliber than Carr and Riley.

I haven't seen the HS kid from Corvallis play - Ehlers - and I know he was the top player in Oregon. But so was Jason Franklin (or one of the top few). Not saying Ehlers won't be good or very good - it's just not proven at the college D1 level yet. I hope he's as good as advertised.

Regarding Riley and Carr, to be honest, I haven't been that impressed. Carr is definitely not s starting PG or SG (or one of the first guys off the bench in the WCC), and I'm not even sure PG is his natural posistion. He was supposed to be a shooter, but I haven't seen it yet. Saying Riley is the best pure shooter on this team, isn't saying much. USF has at least five guys who are better pure shooters than Riley. It's similar when you look across other teams in the league. Where was Riley, or anyone for that matter tonight, when it most counted? Real pure shooters perform in big games.

Just my opinion, but we are definitely more than just a PG away from contending with the top five teams in this league. The talent on this team is not going to get it done against LMU, USF, BYU, St Marys, and is so far away from Gonzaga it's not even funny. What concerns me even more, is that we have to wait two more years until a significant number of scholarships will become available through graduation. I'd like to see a little more balance on the team in terms of seniors, juniors, sophs, and freshman.

How many years, decades really, have we been saying "just wait until next year", or "when this recruit gets here"? Sorry folks, but the honest truth was painfully clear tonight. We're not close. We need more players the caliber of Raivio, TJ Campbell, K. Bailey, Stohl, Canaan Chatman, etc.Instead of just one or two guys like that, we need 4 to 6. How many of our players would make Gonzaga's team? K Bailey and Nicholas, and VDM would have red-shirted until he got stronger. I see this year after year after year - an over-inflated evaluation of our own players. For example, how much better has Douglas gotten since he first stepped on campus? He's still out of control, and then forces things that aren't there, resulting in turnovers or bad shots. How much better is Rogers? Will Cason ever be anything more than a project? The jury is still out on that one.

I know I sound really cynical and I'm sure many will say "negative". I just see it as brutal objectivity and honesty. I'm definitely in the "show me" mode. Scoreboard tongiht: it speaks for itslef. We weren't even competitive. I, like many of the old timers, have invested a lot emotionally with this team over the past 20+ years (others even longer). It just so painful to watch this team try to run an offense, and hope that we can make it through a possession without turning it over.

If Rev can go find a legitimate starting PG that can compete with the upper tier teams in this conference, can find a couple of pure shooters (at least two), VDM gets stronger so he can carve out some space to utilize his tremenous offensive skill set (this kid has really outstanding footwork and post moves - huge upside), Cason or someone can become a consistent force on the boards, then this team has a chance. As the team is currently constructed, IMO, it will not come close to breaking into the top five. This conference is getting better and better talent wise. We can't just keep up, because we're already behind. Rev and his staff are going to have to go out and find multiple players of starting material at the WCC level.

We have the 4th leading rebounder in the league, I would say that is a consistent force on the boards.

by goldhelmet Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:18 pm

We have the 4th leading rebounder in the league, I would say that is a consistent force on the boards.

Nicholas needs some help on the boards from his teammates on a consistent basis. That did not happen this year. Just stating fact.

If you can't identify problems and acknowledge that they are areas that need improvement, you don't fix the problems, and you don't improve.

by oldtimer Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:57 pm

Edit due to late night typing.

What I was trying to say is that your post read like we didnt have anybody consistently rebounding, now that you clarified you make a good point.

It seems obvious that there are problems that need to be fixed but that is true with any team and this one with its young roster is no different.

There have been a lot of good thoughts shared on this thread, perhaps there needs to be an "off season improvement" thread or something like that so everyone can trade ideas and possibly give us something to do in the months to follow. Who knows, in addition to the Pilot input maybe we solve some of the pressing world issues. cheers

by DoubleDipper Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:58 pm

NoPoNeighbor wrote:
If van der Mars bulks up and continues to improve, I think we can compete on the inside, especially with Nicholas down there, too. I agree with up7587 that the back court is a bigger concern.

Still at the tournament! Spent some time with VDM yesterday; he's actally lost a bit of weight as the season has ground him down, but the morning after their loss to USF he was back in the weight room!!

by ShipstadPilot11 Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:29 am

upsailor wrote:Keep our fingers crossed that everybody stays and Rev will have his usual spring workouts along with Scott's program and hope fully next season is a turn around

I want to throw this out there:
Would it be a bad thing if Korey or John Bailey decided to seek other opportunities?
Please keep in mind that I'm not a talent evaluator, I don't know they guys personally and I don't know what they contribute outside of actual games. I just know what has happened on the court so far and I know how the depth charts might look if everyone does stay and I don't think it looks good for those guys. With Riley healthy, I don't think John would have played this year and Korey didn't play. No pending graduations seem like they'll free up time for these guys. It seems like those scholarships would be a decent start at balancing our recruiting classes.

I feel heartless for writing this - I don't mean to be. It's just a thought.

by Guest Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:32 pm

I'm also no talent evaluator. But I hope John Bailey can improve under Rev's tutelage. He's still got three years to play. And our staff is supposed to be able to develop big men. We finally saw some decent play from Jasonn; it just took time.

Korey showed outstanding athleticism when he arrived, but he has never been able to earn playing time, so I guess it doesn't translate to on court performance. I don't know what to think about him. He has two years left, plus a redshirt year. So he could transfer if he wanted more playing time elsewhere. He was well rated out of high school. Very confusing.

by goldhelmet Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:45 pm

He was well rated out of high school. Very confusing.[/quote]

You can get away with a lot of things in HS that you can't at the next level. I will take someone who has a feel for the game over athleticism any day. Athleticism does not always translate into basketball fluidity. We need more guys who are basketball fluid. Nicholas is an example of a guy who may not be the greatest athlete, but he has a good feel for the game and is relatively speaking, much more basketball fluid compared to most on our roster. Ravio was another example of someone who was not that athletic, but had a great feel for the game.

Mark Few says the things he looks for in guys he recruits (other than the obvious pre-requisite talent level) is A) an absolute passion and love for the game and B) a feel for the game. They've had pretty good success with that philosophy.

by NoPoNeighbor Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:00 pm

If I were John Bailey I might be looking to transfer to a school in a lower-level conference. He just isn't a WCC-caliber player, and didn't get much playing time even on one of the worst teams in the league - a team that had a big man injured for almost the entire season. I'm not sure about Korey because he really didn't play at all. But won't both of those guys be competing with Ehlers for playing time next year?

by upsailor Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:27 pm

Ehlers mite very well playat the wing,or possibly SF, and Kory its hard to say wherehe miteplay based on this season. John PF/Post so Ehlers will probaly carve out his position oncce he shows up.

by wrv Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:10 pm

Ehlers comes with enough acclaim--5A POY 2010--that I suspect as well that he will have the talent, drive and moxie to gain minutes on the court as a freshman--for one thing he already shoots better than John Bailey--and he can board.

The real question is what we do at point and for a three point shooter, both of which we need. Carr as least gives us a steady presence who gets the team into the offense and doesn't commit an inordinate number of turnovers--and he can shoot.

I do not suspect we will know who will sign until shortly before signing day or thereafter. I would not be surprised either way on departures--certainly there are players who have not helped the team on court much.

by Guest Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:21 pm

At least Coach is out working hard while some of us haven't even left Las Vegas yet. Per Twitter:

@CoachReveno wrote:Good weekend recruiting. Boarded flight home. Looking forward to getting back to PDX, wondering why guy next to me thinks he gets arm rest.

by NoPoNeighbor Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:50 pm

Obviously there are very good reasons for this kind of info to NOT be made public, but it would be fascinating to know where the staff is at with recruiting right now. How many players are in the mix? How far and wide are they traveling? Are any playing going to make visits to campus? High school state tournaments were going last weekend, including the championship games in Washington. Perhaps UP was scouting at those games?

Of note also: Jake Ehlers was tied for the game-high with 18 points in Corvallis' first-round win over Cleveland over the weekend.

by goldhelmet Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:42 pm

Well, we could get more information on recruiting, but there isn't a big enough demand for it to justify a major website presence and hiring people to run the site. Go to any of the BCS schools' websites on Rivals, 24/7, Scout, ESPN affiliates, and recruiting information is so plentiful you couldn't possibly digest it all and have any kind of life. It is the lifeblood of those businesses and it's in demand year round. That's one disadvantage of a smaller program.

With that said, I agree, I would love to have more information about the group of players the coaches are targeting, look at film, etc. (but many may not even have highlight films since most will not be big time players).

by **DaTruRochin** Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:23 pm

goldhelmet wrote: (but many may not even have highlight films since most will not be big time players).

Eh, most decent HS coaches will put together a highlight video of their players to get them noticed... I mean even the 2001 LaSalle Falcons had a pretty amazing highlight VHS, it was truly shocking more of those guys didn't play in D-1, just SHOCKING!

Kidding aside, most decent players will have a youtube video out there (any person with an iphone could put one together in 5 minutes), hahaha but without the names it is hard for us to really find them...

by Woodless! Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:55 pm

Somebody needs to put some of those La Salle videos on PN. It would help me get through the off season.

by Guest Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:23 pm

Woodless! wrote:Somebody needs to put some of those La Salle videos on PN. It would help me get through the off season.

Woodless, that's what Nascar is for!

by goldhelmet Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:50 pm

DaTruRochin wrote:
goldhelmet wrote: (but many may not even have highlight films since most will not be big time players).

Eh, most decent HS coaches will put together a highlight video of their players to get them noticed... I mean even the 2001 LaSalle Falcons had a pretty amazing highlight VHS, it was truly shocking more of those guys didn't play in D-1, just SHOCKING!

Kidding aside, most decent players will have a youtube video out there (any person with an iphone could put one together in 5 minutes), hahaha but without the names it is hard for us to really find them...

Yeah, but LasSalle is a big time program. Wink

by blacksheep Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:50 am

DaTruRochin wrote:
Eh, most decent HS coaches will put together a highlight video of their players to get them noticed... I mean even the 2001 LaSalle Falcons had a pretty amazing highlight VHS, it was truly shocking more of those guys didn't play in D-1, just SHOCKING!

All I remember from those days is some kid in the crowd doing some weird fist pump thing on free throws. Did that ever catch on? Very Happy

by Stonehouse Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:40 am

blacksheep wrote:All I remember from those days is some kid in the crowd doing some weird fist pump thing on free throws. Did that ever catch on?

Ha ha! Actually, as silly as it is, every time the UP students do the "Whoosh, Whoosh Pilots!" I can't help but feel a twinge of pride (Purple pride?) that MattyWizz, Rochin54, the "Mad Bomber" (does he have a PN account?), and I brought that from LaSalle. I hope they still do "Whoosh, Whoosh Falcons!" at the Brick Oven.

Speaking of which... did you know that it's called "Space Age Fuel Gym" now? I'm not sure how I feel about that.

by **Rob's Jacket** Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:35 am

[quote="Stonehouse"]

blacksheep wrote:Speaking of which... did you know that it's called "Space Age Fuel Gym" now? I'm not sure how I feel about that.

By contrast, I'm very sure how I feel about that. Mad

We still did "Whoosh, Whoosh Falcons" when I was there ... but then again, I was there long enough ago that the school was called La Salle High School, not "La Salle Catholic College Preparatory." Rolling Eyes

by newpilotfan Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:30 pm

Found this on YouTube. Jake Ehlers is #11 on the black team. I know its an all star game but I'm not seeing why the coach love this guy. Wish there was more video of him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c9wp0ZC6po

by DoubleDipper Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:48 pm

newpilotfan wrote:I know its an all star game but I'm not seeing why the coach love this guy (Ehlers).

Recruiting at UP’s level in D-1 is often a crap shoot, and is usually based upon POTENTIAL . In Jake Ehlers’ case it is also the opportunity to develop a home-grown talent, much like the recruitment of David Carr, so we can get a statewide following, not just a UP following.

It's relatively easy to identify the top recruits that are going to the BIG programs, it is much more difficult to recruit based upon potential. Until we have the sustained success of GU, or the Aussie pipeline of SMC, or the (almost) one-of-a-kind religious draw of BYU, we just have to recruit the best we can and hope the player develops before his four years are over. Some on this board have expressed their disappointment with UP’s freshmen and sophomores, but there have been very few top performing underclassmen at UP through the years.

Another often overlooked aspect of recruiting at UP is ACADEMICS, and academic potential. Hopefully it is just an accident this year that the two schools that many think are the best academically in the WCC, UP and SCU, came in 8th and 9th in the league. But it’s a reality, there are no corners cut or waivers given at UP for a recruit that will have difficulty finishing at an academically high level in four years. Very Happy

by oldtimer Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:26 pm

newpilotfan wrote:Found this on YouTube. Jake Ehlers is #11 on the black team. I know its an all star game but I'm not seeing why the coach love this guy. Wish there was more video of him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c9wp0ZC6po

That was plenty.