New Women's Pro League!

DaTruRochin wrote:Well and in the rest of the world there are teams in nearly every city (And multiple in the major ones)... I suppose it is all a matter of scale.

These were only first division teams. Every league I named had 20 teams.

The Thorns would be 11th in the Brasil Serie A.

I think we are just soccer crazy here. Lets face it, 5,000 people showed up to watch thecTimbers play a bunch of kids for the Make-a-Wish deal recently!

One of the reasons I love Portland!

I was referring to this more than anything:

up7587 wrote:So, is that saying that futbol isn't really that popular around the world

But yes, PDX does seem to fancy the game something fierce... I'm just waiting til the hipsters find soccer too mainstream and switch over to jai alai

I think Seattle will decide to watch Basketball before that happens.

You don't see a Fronton in our future?

I'd say the chances are even.

DaTruRochin wrote:I was referring to this more than anything:

up7587 wrote:So, is that saying that futbol isn't really that popular around the world

I was being mostly sarcastic. But there are 20 college football teams that average higher attendance than Man U, and Man U was not sold out (96.4% of capacity). Many of the EPL stadiums are surprisingly small; 8 have a capacity less than 30,000. Every NFL team except the Bengals averages higher attendance than all EPL teams except Man U and Newcastle. Five average more than Man U. I realize it's a bit apples and oranges, more games in the EPL. Just sayin'.

http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_attendance_figures
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2012.pdf

A number of women's soccer fans are trying to figure out: Why is the Thorns attendance so much greater than for any other team?

Maybe we could get some serious discussion here on this question. It's an important one for the future of women's soccer.

Not sure what a 30K stadium size In the EPL has to do with the comparison I made.

The Thorns play in a stadium currently capped at 20.5K and do better than several of those teams. The Timbers would be in the middle of the table.

And your NFL examples are um.. Creative. Let me show you how much.

NFL teams play 8 home games a year.

Anybody can fill a stadium for 8 dates in a first division. Man U's 96.4% is over 19 dates.
(not including CL matches. Think any of those aren't sold out?)

Let's compare:
The Cowboys don't do nearly the percent of stadium that Man U does.
The Cowboys stadium is built to seat 100,000 ( not the 80K your table says) and they average 88.5 K , which makes the percentage of stadium full math pretty easy at 88.5% ( not the 110% their press office claims - does the Fire Marshall know?) over 8 dates.

I love 110% math

He gave 110% today

Um, no, coach, you can only give 100%

But he gave more

Their total attendance is swamped by ManU ( almost 2:1) The Cowboys would be 6th in the EPL.

The Sounders put more butts in the seats than every NFL team, including the Cowboys and Giants. They played 25 home dates last year.

the Timbers bring in more people than Miami, Tampa Bay, Oakland, and Kansas City playing in a puny stadium.

The NFL is a very limited model compared to clubs that play 20-30 home dates a year.

UPSoccerFanatic wrote:A number of women's soccer fans are trying to figure out: Why is the Thorns attendance so much greater than for any other team?

Maybe we could get some serious discussion here on this question. It's an important one for the future of women's soccer.

I see our Notre Dame friend in Seattle dismisses it as just Timbers folks buying tickets on BS. That's not what I see from the people sitting around me. What is your experience?

I'll be out of town for a couple of weeks, but when I get back I'll take an informal poll of the people who sit around our Thorns seats. How about others do that too. Let's see how it is that people are coming to Thorns games.

I will be glad to participate.

Just my two cents on why the Thorns draw so well.
1) A good downtown stadium, centrally located, few of the other NWSL teams have stadiums in ideal locations. NJ in the middle of nowhere, Seattle playing at Starfire Stadium in Tukwilla...
2) Limited competition for sports dollars in town during the summer months
3) A strong Pilot/Timber fan base with local ties on the team.
4) The Thorns are in a honeymoon phase. Other cities, excluding Seattle, have already had 1 or 2 go rounds with women's professional soccer.
5) A top of the table team. Everyone likes a winner and the combination of good players and a good team help. I feel sorry for the Seattle team. No US allocation players, bottom of the table... It will be interesting to see if they get a bounce from the return of Hope and Megan.
And finally,
6) ALEX MORGAN - Mia Hamm and Brandi Chastain all wrapped up in one package.

Not so sure about 5).

The Thorns were a success before the season started. They sold as many season tickets as the rest of the league. Great marketing.

6) is not the whole story. Listen to the cheers. Christine's are as big as Morgan's, though perhaps a bit lower in pitch.

I noticed Dani got some before the last game also.

It would be interesting how many people on the Timbers season ticket waiting list purchased Thorns tickets

With regard to 1), I really wish the Reign played somewhere more downtown like Memorial Stadium (Even if it does mean football lines), even in MLS the correlation between suburban stadiums and low attendance is pretty direct i.e. New England playing all the way in Foxboro, Dallas out in Arlington, Chicago in Bridgeview. I mentioned before the Boston Breakers play at a HS stadium in N Somerville.

I'm not sure what you have in PDXis something that can really be duplicated, its kind of the perfect storm.

DaTruRochin wrote:It would be interesting how many people on the Timbers season ticket waiting list purchased Thorns tickets

You might be interested to know that I and several other PN regulars got on the Timbers waiting list just to get better Thorns seats.

I was traveling a lot the Timbers first year and figured I would wait a year. Big mistake.

Last year I mugged people for tickets.

The downtown stadium idea has real merit. I wonder if the Reign tried talking to UW or Seattle U? How many teams with good MLS attendance are in the suburbs?

http://mlsattendance.blogspot.com/

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/51461/looking-under-the-hood-at-mlss-attendance-decline.html

I guess it depends on what you define as "good" attendance, but here's a few with the burbs/decent attendance combo

LA Galaxy (Carson, CA ... although the LA sprawl is kind of unique) -average 21,271 - But no more Beckham and Donovan has only recently comeback plus Chivas are the lowest in the league in the same stadium

Philly Union (Chester, PA) - 17334 (93.5% capacity)

Real Salt Lake (Sandy, UT) - 18,153 (89.8% capacity)

Sporting KC (Technically still KC, but way outside "downtown") - 19,177 - (103.85% capacity)

Most of the other high draws (Sea, PDX, Montreal, Vancouver, Toronto, Houston) all have either downtown or close to downtown stadia ... and SJ gets 98.74% capacity... playing in itty bitty Buck Shaw

PPL is in a strip urban area along the river within 15 minutes of 30th street station in Philly by light rail ( short free shuttle to the stadium if you are lazy).

And it's virtually under a bridge from NJ pockets of population right across the river.
Chester is about the size of Beaverton but more densely packed.


It's actually a sweet transportation hub for the area. I'd call it centrally located, not in a suburban fringe. Its probably easier to get to than Yankee Stadium or Citi Park from midtown Manhattan. Nobody calls those stadiums suburban.


And Santa Clara is five minutes from downtown San Jose. It's as Urban as California gets, IMO.

But RSL and the Chivas/Galaxy venue certainly is suburban. I must have driven past KC at some point, but I have no memory of it.

Yeah, save SF you're probably right as far as CA. It should be noted that the new stadium will only have an 18k capacity and isn't that far from Buck Shaw.

Plus I've heard rumblings the Krafts want to build a new stadium for the Revs out near Suffolk Downs (Which already has a stop off the Blue Line branch of the T), but that is largely dependent on the state also allowing them a license to build a casino on the same complex. I'd imagine the Breakers could find a home at that complex as well if the league is still around then.

The KC stadium is in a huge complex called The Legends right off I-435. The complex includes the 81,000 seat Kansas Speedway Nascar track, a baseball stadium where the minor league T-Bones play, one of those destination Cabela's, a multiplex movie theater, an outlet mall and other shopping venues and many, many eateries. Across I-435 from the Legends is something called the Schlitterbahn, which is a giant waterpark. While not located downtown, the stadium is in a pretty well established shopping and entertainment venue for the area. Too bad the women don't play there - yet.

Thorns announced today that the USWNT has called up a couple of players.

http://www.portlandtimbers.com/news/2013/05/alex-morgan-rachel-buehler-called-us-womens-national-team

Canada will take two also.

It should mean a lot of playing time for Dani and Angie.

Points scoring by college and NCAA conference for games through May 19. Two points for a goal and 1 for an assist:

School-Conference-Goals-Assists-Points

UCLA Pac 12 8 5 21
Portland West Coast 8 2 18
Foreign Foreign 6 6 18
North Carolina ACC 5 5 15
California Pac 12 5 0 10
Princeton Ivy 4 1 9
Penn State Big 10 4 1 9
Oklahoma Big 12 4 0 8
Virginia ACC 2 3 7
Florida SEC 3 1 7
Stanford Pac 12 2 3 7
Florida State ACC 3 0 6
San Diego West Coast 1 2 4
Texas Tech Big 12 2 0 4
UC Irvine Big West 1 1 3
Texas A&M SEC 1 0 2
Santa Clara West Coast 1 0 2
Arizona State Pac 12 1 0 2
Illinois Big 10 0 1 1
Michigan State Big 10 0 1 1
Washington Pac 12 0 1 1
Colorado Pac 12 0 1 1
Oregon State Pac 12 0 1 1

Conference-Goals-Assists-Points

Pac 12 16 11 43
ACC 10 8 28
West Coast 10 4 24
Foreign 6 6 18
Big 12 6 0 12
Big 10 4 3 11
Ivy 4 1 9
SEC 4 1 9
Big West 1 1 3

Canada announced their roster for the upcoming match. There is one bit of a surprise...Rachel Quon ( Stanford, Red Stars) is a Canadian, apparently!

http://canadasoccer.com/canada-wnt-announces-squad-for-friendly-against-usa--p154028